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[MrRoboto75]

Get hype for several more days of pride month!

DAY 26

GIVE IT UP FOR DAY 26

[Magmacube_tr]

Get hype for several more days of pride month!

DAY 26

GIVE IT UP FOR DAY 26

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[Rolan7]

Get hype for several more days of pride month!

DAY 26

GIVE IT UP FOR DAY 26

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Oooh I'll have to remember that trick.  Looks very nice!  *sending hugs*

(Currently displayed in my window instead of the stick, since I'm done with events for the month)

[Great Order]

Dunno if anyone's been keeping track of it, but the UK has been throwing a dicky-fit over a schoolkid identifying as a cat, to the extent that the Education Secretary has gotten involved.

It's also a load of bollocks, two students were clearly shit-stirring and selectively recording a teacher who was basically telling students to stop harassing another student and getting rather exasperated by that point. The Telegraph (AKA Torygraph for good reason) saw an opportunity to make shit up and pounced, so now we've got yet another bunch of people losing their shit over the Woke Mob(TM) existing.

[Starver]

Yeah, had heard about it. But filed away under my category of "anyone who thinks that 'being woke' is a bad thing are already showing their true colours" .

(To be clear, you can perhaps be mis-woke, even fanatically over-woke, but as soon as it's a clear blanket issue describing anything woke-like as something to be railed against (especially when clearly another version of "Winterval" or "Empty bus full of Muslim women") just reflects badly on the utterer of that claim. Though if it's something like GB News, or the Telegraph, then I'm already (ironically) inclined to shun anything they say without looking for the nuances. At least wait until other outlets come out with their own interpretations and angles, to perhaps find out what specks of merit there might be...)

[TD1]

Yea, generalisations are bad in general () - but the philosophy of 'wokeness' can - and certainly should - be held to account. Every philosophy has its attendant flaws, aberrations, and evils.

Not that what you said claims otherwise (at least, not exactly), this is just my random two cents, hah.

[Loud Whispers]

Dunno if anyone's been keeping track of it, but the UK has been throwing a dicky-fit over a schoolkid identifying as a cat, to the extent that the Education Secretary has gotten involved.

It's also a load of bollocks, two students were clearly shit-stirring and selectively recording a teacher who was basically telling students to stop harassing another student and getting rather exasperated by that point. The Telegraph (AKA Torygraph for good reason) saw an opportunity to make shit up and pounced, so now we've got yet another bunch of people losing their shit over the Woke Mob(TM) existing.

Police are more likely to investigate catgate than MPs get investigated for embezzlement, tax evasion, bribery or noncery

[Strongpoint]

But what should we actually do with people who define their gender as a pony, dragon, elf, etc? Some people do this for trolling, some do it genuinely. And this is becoming more popular

It is a genuine question, not some kind of attempt to start a debate. I kinda know how to interact with a trans person but if someone will say to me that they are a cat... I honestly have no idea and no plan. And, unlike me, teachers in schools can't even avoid such situations.

[TD1]

I'd say treat them the same? It's always gonna be difficult to spot trolls, but the underlying principles/identity politics remain identical.

[alway]

But what should we actually do with people who define their gender as a pony, dragon, elf, etc? Some people do this for trolling, some do it genuinely. And this is becoming more popular

It is a genuine question, not some kind of attempt to start a debate. I kinda know how to interact with a trans person but if someone will say to me that they are a cat... I honestly have no idea and no plan. And, unlike me, teachers in schools can't even avoid such situations.

You seem to have this persistent problem where you have an inability to treat people unlike yourself with dignity, respect, or as people. You should probably start by talking to your therapist about that tbh.

[Great Order]

Shove them in the "Odd but harmless" mental category I've got reserved for a lot of people.

[None]

But what should we actually do with people who define their gender as a pony, dragon, elf, etc? Some people do this for trolling, some do it genuinely. And this is becoming more popular

It is a genuine question, not some kind of attempt to start a debate. I kinda know how to interact with a trans person but if someone will say to me that they are a cat... I honestly have no idea and no plan. And, unlike me, teachers in schools can't even avoid such situations.

Kids have been pretending to be cats for decades, give me a break. And given that fursonas or otherkin haven't meaningfully shifted scientifically or socially how we understand the 'self,' I wouldn't put any concern about this.

That's also not how gender works? Typically claiming one's gender to be an inanimate object or creature is done in hyperbole to be transphobic...

[Rolan7]

Dunno if anyone's been keeping track of it, but the UK has been throwing a dicky-fit over a schoolkid identifying as a cat, to the extent that the Education Secretary has gotten involved.

It's also a load of bollocks, two students were clearly shit-stirring and selectively recording a teacher who was basically telling students to stop harassing another student and getting rather exasperated by that point. The Telegraph (AKA Torygraph for good reason) saw an opportunity to make shit up and pounced, so now we've got yet another bunch of people losing their shit over the Woke Mob(TM) existing.

It's been a thing in the US too to some extent, but with a uniquely American character:
Some US schools *do* have kitty litter.
For sheltering in place during... incidents.

And yet trolls and credulous bigots happily spun a culture-war narrative about it.  Along with people demanding that we take their "concerns" seriously and be respectful.
Like no
The people spinning lies to incite hatred should be stopped.  With state violence if necessary, AKA fines and whatever.

And the people who believe this shit are a combination of stupid and eager to believe hateful messaging.  They don't deserve respect for that, they need deprogramming.  The extent to which they actually *believe* what they're saying is debatable- they see a narrative that affirms their bigotry, they share it.  Fuck'm.  Kindness WILL NOT change their mind.

Obviously, if they *do* change their mind- perhaps because they're tired of being mocked for their gullibility and hatred- I fully believe in restorative justice, which in this case is just "Don't sweat it, cults are addictive, glad you're better now <3".  I know many such people.  Affirming and respecting their bigotry wasn't what snapped them out of it.

...I mean, I had shitty takes on trans people at first too.  People were firm with me- AKA treated me with *actual* respect by calling out how I was wrong.  That's been true on more political issues as well.  Appeasement doesn't work and it's infantalizing.

[Strongpoint]

But what should we actually do with people who define their gender as a pony, dragon, elf, etc? Some people do this for trolling, some do it genuinely. And this is becoming more popular

It is a genuine question, not some kind of attempt to start a debate. I kinda know how to interact with a trans person but if someone will say to me that they are a cat... I honestly have no idea and no plan. And, unlike me, teachers in schools can't even avoid such situations.

You seem to have this persistent problem where you have an inability to treat people unlike yourself with dignity, respect, or as people. You should probably start by talking to your therapist about that tbh.

Your assumption is very wrong and I am really confused about what it has to do with my last message in this thread. Like really confused. It is so weird and random that I can't even see it as insulting. Also, my personality is not the subject of the thread or any discussion in the thread.

But what should we actually do with people who define their gender as a pony, dragon, elf, etc? Some people do this for trolling, some do it genuinely. And this is becoming more popular

It is a genuine question, not some kind of attempt to start a debate. I kinda know how to interact with a trans person but if someone will say to me that they are a cat... I honestly have no idea and no plan. And, unlike me, teachers in schools can't even avoid such situations.

Kids have been pretending to be cats for decades, give me a break. And given that fursonas or otherkin haven't meaningfully shifted scientifically or socially how we understand the 'self,' I wouldn't put any concern about this.

That's also not how gender works? Typically claiming one's gender to be an inanimate object or creature is done in hyperbole to be transphobic...

Sure, the sarcastic attack helicopter meme was and is used as a way to insult. But xenogenders are a real thing some people self-identify as. The idea that male and female (+fluid, non-binary, etc) are merely the most common genders is growing in popularity.

And I already ranted in this thread that different people define gender so differently that using this word usually doesn't explain anything without further inquiry of what the person means by that. So the question "is this how gender works?" depends on the definition.

[Starver]

One of the few 'sentences' of Japanese I actually know is "Watashi wa neko desu, nyo..." (Well, technically, it's the bit before the comma, after that it's apparently onomatopoeic, and I can't check I've got the 'spelling' correct.)

I'd say that "I define my gender as a <helicopter/whatever>" is often bad-faith absurdism, by those that don't believe that "◇gender≠sex" and decide to go the "by supporting gay marriage, you'll have people marrying animals/buildings next" contrary argumentation.

Separately, there is roleplay (everything from Furoticism to LARP), which is "honest deviation" across any or all boundaries (which may or may not involve some genuine personal dysphoria, but one can't assume that either).

The issue of not being able to label yourself with standard binary genders or binary-derived alternatives (not this one/the other/various proportions of both/neither/varying day-to-day or more) and deciding that the nature of a cat encompasses what you're feeling does not mean you're genetically a cat, but neither does what you feel about your gender have to match your genetic gender (and/or your physical phenotype, which can be different again).


I'd honestly consider "my gender is pony" as more in the second category, perhaps the third. I would maybe query more detail, given the opportunity, especially as actual ponies would not thenselves be single-gendered (though maybe "My Little" ones are?), and perhaps weed out the first-category type by paying attention to the context it's being put into.


But, so long as no harm happens, I don't think it's my business in what ways a person decides to shape their life. And probably the harms I need to be most concerned about are those coming directly from the "absolutely not"ists who can't even remain slightly bemused by it all but insist on 'correcting' the perceived situation.


(This was not in direct response to Strongpoint's earlier post, and indeed was just ninjaed by their latest one (wgich somehow managaged to step on some of the same stepping stones of conversation, although maybe with a different foot!) so don't take this as a response to that in any way at all. It was just a ramble around the theme to perhaps try to place my personal philosophy in context.)

[edit: Had to post first, to properly check, but I came up with the "<helicopter/whatever>" reference entirely without any mention in the recent thread. Only to find that the message above mentioning it. Which all goes to show that the (discredited) "I identify as a helicopter" meme, which I'm sure I've seen 'hovering' around such discussions for three decades (possibly more) is a rare but perrenial favourite. Perhaps even invoking some gender-discussion equivalent to Godwin's law,  indicating that the conversation should now be considered over as unlikely to resolve well now that helicopters are mentioned. ]