Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Strongpoint]

What you don't get is that you are LYING about their member, Emily Bridges, by stating that "she will be DEMOLISHED in the male sport" because she was excelling in the Male side until she decided she couldn't live that life anymore. You don't KNOW how she might do against the males, you just ASSUME what you WANT to assume.

The key word there WAS. If she will compete with men now, after reducing her testosterone levels, she will be demolished.

I stand corrected. It is not will be. She did compete with men after beginning the transition

she took part in several circuit races, and her final men’s race, in September, was the Welsh National Championship road race, where she finished second to last, a full 12km lap behind the winner. Did these results make up her mind to move to women’s racing as soon as possible? “It was always the plan,” she says. “After starting hormone therapy I didn’t want to race in the male category any more than I had to – obviously, it sucks, getting dropped, racing as a man when you’re not one. It was quickly apparent that that was the wrong category for me.” -

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/fitness/i-just-want-to-be-competitive-again-trans-cyclist-emily-bridges-on-preparing-to-race-in-the-female-category

Looks like the person "I attacked" agrees that she has no chance of competing with men. Reality also agrees.


[extreme saracsm voice] She also must be misogynistic wanting to compete in the women category to match her reduced performance. We all know that thinking that women are worse in sports is misogyny, right? [/sarcasm]

[scriver]

I do think a move of this discussion to another or a new thread might be in order.

[Vector]

This thread is for LGBTQ+ people to find each other and discuss whatever comes up, not for non-community members to come in and fight back and forth over and over and over again about what our legal and social rights should be. I am sorry but I know you are all very interested in the trans femme sport problem. I don't give a shit anymore.

Do you not notice how with each of these blowups the LGBTQ+ forumites basically leave the thread and stop discussing? I'm not talking about myself--I'm an idiot who is willing to keep wading back in. But all other discussion ceases during each of these conflicts. You could learn from us and potentially change your perspective, but instead you decide that beating the same old dead horse on our front porch is more important.

Pride month is going to start in a couple of days. Consider the possibility of being better allies by, at the very least, hosting your shitty fight in its own dedicated thread. Don't use the cover of our community space to hide your political intentions.

[genmac]

Reading Vector's comment about "non-community members" I don't think this thread or any of the politics threads belong on this forum at all.  Looking at the post history for several users, like Vector, shows they don't post much about any of the bay12 games at all, but just political arguments.  In the "sad" thread you see some people talking about their suicidal ideas or psychiatric care.  Those posters are also frequently in this thread.  I don't think the general discussion forum for bay 12 games is the best place to talk about your mental problems or sexual orientation.

[scriver]

That's a bit drastic. I didn't interpret that as in non-bay12 community members but non-LGBTQ+ community members. A general discussion forum isn't the best place to talk about a lot of things – that doesn't mean it's a bad place to talk about them.

Regardless, we have a history here that when an argument or topic keep popping up in a thread where people don't want or that overshadows the other discussions, it is taken to a new thread if people want to keep the discussion going.

[Strongpoint]

If this thread had a description like "This is a thread in which members of the LGBT community share and discuss their personal experiences". I wouldn't post there.

The OP literally says "Making this because I'm finding myself diving into it more and more, and I'm not wanting to derail other threads with it. General discussion, news, events, whatever's relevant."

[McTraveller]

General rule of thumb is - just be kind in everything.  Try to understand each other.  Discussing things like sports... does sound more like politics, rather than trying to understand or support each other.

EDIT: and even I have strayed into some... too academic?... conversations here... trying to do better.

[Starver]

(Meta post!)

For my part, I saw the news, and this thread had such kinds of news before. It seemed of interest, and it seemed that if I hadn't said anything then it might have gone unnoticed by those for whom it eventually directly effects. (If I'd have known it would have festured strongly on UK news for the next half day, only really overshadowed by the circumstances surrounding Philip Schofield's departure from TV, I would not have presumed that those it might effect could have missed it.)

And I don't mean to fight anyone's fight for them (unasked), just add half-considered balance where I saw it as yet unchallenged. Even/especially when I know it's been discussed before. I perhaps went on more about side-issues than I should have, while biting my tongue on the main arguments (which I didn't want to enflame, but clearly weren't cooling down on their own either - not yet anywhere near bannable level for anyone, IMO, but I'm not the best judge on that).


There should be nothing wrong with any of the presumed purposes of this thread being here in the lower-forums/General, as there are plenty of other "community, not game" things here and no official requirement to make even token Dorfy references when you have no Fortressy/Adventurey things to say. Maybe some things might verge into Life Advice sub-sub-forum version of the thread, but that could cause problems when the range inevitably weaves in and out of this narrower remit. Perhaps like the Ukraine Reporting/Emotional thread (as imperfect as that delineation is), if there's a need for a more definite split of function then you have that option?

And I'm definitely sympathetic with Vector's(/et al’s) frustrations. Which this meta isn't helping, I'm sure, but now I'm ducking out of this whole round of distraction. Hopefully.

(End Meta!)

[dragdeler]

There you go I balanced your rocking chair, now it finally can stand still. Had to distract myself saw some kids on a seesaw sigh

[Rolan7]

I'd rather the thread be slow than full of that stupid psy-op.  Once again: If people want to address fairness in sports, that belongs in its own thread, because trans people are an infinitesimal part of that discussion.  We're only framed as relevant to make us sound evil.  We're not "dominating sports", and we already went over the data of how HRT brings us nearly to cis-level.

(also yes, people with testosterone tend to be stronger than people with estrogen.  I'll totally concede that, since I outright said it and certainly never disagreed with it)
I would love to fill the thread with on-topic discussion but there's not too much to share.  I'm being my gender and that's going well!  It's going so well that it's about as unremarkable as gender is for cis people.  That's a good thing, it's just not very discussion-worthy

There's obviously the ACTUAL politics, with hundreds of bills being pushed through to criminalize our existence, but I still don't want to talk about that here.  Sure it's a lot more important than the sports smokescreen, but I'd rather put it in Ameripol instead of stinking up this thread.
So yeah, Pride month
This is the first year where I feel like I can actually... enjoy going as myself, rather than pretending to be something else.  So I AM really looking forward to it!!

On the 3rd there's an event nearby.  Looks pretty normie, but that just makes it a good way to get a sense for what to attend later.  I can be almost outgoing when I'm myself!  I even did a test-run last month by attending a protest/march elsewhere in my state.  I was a little awkward but people were nice and I had a lot of fun.  I got a pronoun wristband which I'm still wearing most of the time~  though it's kinda illegible lol, white on yellow.  It's still a nice reminder/token.

Oh if nothing else I can certainly finally get some pronoun pins for my mask!!  I keep meaning to do that online, but buying in person from a vendor might be cooler.  I do kinda want both they and she (perhaps he?), because I'm definitely fluid.  I want to fly the NB colors, too, but it'd be good to have a small pin of the trans colors too.  It's so recognizable yet also vague, always appropriate even when I feel masc.

Aw, I'm excited!

Edit: Oh oh, and, I have a Progress Pride cloth flag that I got but didn't feel comfortable flying.  I think... surely, for pride month, I can put that in my window.  I think that's safe.  Hell, there's a couple houses within a mile of me that have LGBT-friendly lawn signs already, surely I can do this for pride month.

[Doomblade187]

Ah, good that your neighbors (so to speak) are chill. Pride month.... Will be neat i guess. Not gonna hang a flag though, the area probably isn't the best for that.

[jipehog]

General rule of thumb is - just be kind in everything.  Try to understand each other.  Discussing things like sports... does sound more like politics, rather than trying to understand or support each other.

The discussion was on topic, we were talking about the way to achieve inclusion given the reality of competitive sports, but eventually it devolved into the internets beloved tradition of 'someone is wrong'.

This isn't the first time it happens and I would suggest if people don't want to engage, simply don't. Trying to outshout others when you fail to get your opinion across, throwing insults, telling people to leave and making threats of bans are not helpful and lead to predictable results.

EDIT: Have fun with with pride month !

[Maximum Spin]

I really can't support the idea of gatekeeping in a thread whose topic is by definition supposed to be inclusive, to the point of having a general + at the end.
But more importantly to me, I don't like this jumping to assumptions about who people are and what they think. It's not okay.

[Rolan7]

If you don't like it, you're welcome to leave.

I'm so sorry I know that was "intolerant" of me.  I'm such a hypocrite or whatever.  Perhaps we should make our own thread for LGBTQIA+ issues and let this be the thread about sports categories and how weak women are.

That way you can keep discussing those issues as much as you like without implying it has anything to do with us.

EDIT: Have fun with with pride month !

Thanks! 
My complex is fairly conservative, but I have a right to be here and I don't think it's going to be a problem... fuck, I guess with a Progress flag I have more plausible deniability.  If it comes to that.  I'm not sure if I'm being bitter or reassuring myself.

[dragdeler]

fuck, I guess with a Progress flag I have more plausible deniability.  If it comes to that.  I'm not sure if I'm being bitter or reassuring myself.

Tell 'em look we got a brown line now for brown shirts, that should give you sufficient time to put some distance between you and them  .