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[Jim Groovester]

Jim

Between TolyK voting for Vector for confusing reasons and notquitethere voting Vector for no given reason despite suspecting EuchreJack, which of them looks worse?

Ahoy! But I wanted that scurvy Vector gone from D2, did I not?

Why do you pick Vector on Day 3 over EuchreJack? On Day 2 it looked like you wanted webadict and then EuchreJack and then maybe Vector after that.

Answer me, notquitethere.

Although... the mass mafiakill is unstoppable and irreversible, but how does that work with clones etc.?

All you buccaneers with abilities to prevent dying, PM fallacy and ask how it interacts with the Countdown

Who knows, maybe he balanced the game around a town core surviving the whole ship sinking...

This is a waste of time that you already know the answer to.

Full claim!

Role Name: RED Troubleshooter
(Item, Night) R&D Equipment: You give out Mandatory Equipment to target player, causing the actions used by them this Night to be randomized.
(Night) Spies Everywhere [target]: Your Secret Society contacts bug your target, and learn the full text of any action or actions they used this Night. You also learn the number of Item abilities they possess.
(1-Shot, Night) Mutation Heat Sense [target]: You determine who target player targeted this and one previous night.
(2-shot, Auto) Extra clones: You have two more clones before you die for good

Final Countdown feels like it would fit within this list of abilities. Also the two shot revive is bullshit.

I really don't think it's NQT because my intuition says that the countdown player hasn't been given the ability to slit someone's throat. I can see scum!NQT, but it just seems crazy that Vector would have no kill, but the countdown player would have a kill and a game-ender.

Or maybe it is, I don't know. The fact that there's probably two scum out there and we have to kill a specific one of them is a bit much, really.

This would be a sane assumption about game balance but this is the wrong game to apply it to.

I was almost convinced by this reasoning until I remembered that this game had the Final Countdown in the first place.

I think Jack and NQT are making a mockery of this game so Jack NQT.

Splitting your double vote is a cop out. You want to make it to Day 6 you have to pick one person.

YOU GOTTA GO ALL IN BABY



I can't decide if I want to vote EuchreJack or notquitethere.

notquitethere does not feel like he's approaching Day 5 from the same perspective as ToonyMan, TricMagic, NJW2000, Nakeen, and even TolyK to some extent. It's pretty clear who the countdowner is is at the forefront at their minds but it's hard to say the same for notquitethere. notquitethere spends much more focus trying to sort out N4 actions and identify why he got a third party result on ToonyMan because ?????????????? and much less effort and focus on who is responsible for the Final Countdown.

EuchreJack is scum and is lurking super fucking hard but maybe it's not because he's trying to draw attention to himself and away from his teammate but because he actually is responsible for the Final Countdown and is wisely shutting the hell up lest he run his mouth and give up something about himself. And maybe notquitethere is right about EuchreJack in that claiming to have two revives is an attempt to make him a less viable lynch target.

Fuck it EuchreJack deserves to be lynched more.

Somebody convince me it's notquitethere.

[Nakéen]

Warning: hot takes below because there isn't enough information around, there are too many remaining players, and the full claims can't be 100% trusted. I'm trying at best to avoid wild theories, because with the current situation there is enough of a lack of material to go everywhere. And I just don't have the mental energy to flip my brain.

Dragon Highlanders (I was right on the reference)
Because of the There Can Only Be One shared ability, I don't think the Countdowner is among the Dragons so that's at least TricMagic, Jim Groovester, and KnightWing64 out of the way. I don't consider TolyK a true dragon because the role changing is extremely sketchy, but TolyK is more likely a 3rd party than a mafia in my eyes.

>>> Countdowner can't be a Dragon.

What-ifs for non-Dragons and non-NQT/Jack

NJW2000 as Countdowner: only possible if TolyK lied/messed up the inspect, and if NJW2000 has a 5th ability.

TolyK as Countdowner: not so impossible because they break the 4 actions limit. Overall their role and actions seemed built around curing favor with other players, which could fit with a Countdowner trying to buddy up with everyone be they Mafia or Town. Seen from this angle, TolyK as the Countdowner doesn't seem unlikely at all!

ToonyMan as Countdowner: I just realized it now, but ToonyMan can't be the Countdowner at all due to using Cool Shades last day. Unless they had a double day action, which seemed pretty unique to juicebox. I feel dumb for realizing that only now.

NQT and EuchreJack

Jack is Scum. NQT feels less helpful than past days, but their full claim feels pretty solid unless they were playing the long con. But that doesn't mean they couldn't have an ability that can be used independently from their acted persona.

Final thoughts:
Countdowner is among EuchreJack, TolyK, and maybe notquitethere. I'm giving a bit more of a pass to NQT for the effort of juggling between different personalities. Yes it is stupid, but I'm getting mentally tired too. Actually nevermind.

TolyK because there is already the Jack wagon, which I will hop on when I wake up and nothing has changed. Maybe people who passed a contract with TolyK will be able to bring some better insight. Who knows.

[TolyK]

For the record, my role is something along the lines of "Hey Fallacy, Could I Pretend I'm Playing But Not Actually?" and was basically told "well yes but actually no" and was forced to replace my role at startup.

My "actual" role only has 3 abilities, and the replacement roles have 2-3 abilities. Honestly, with players having so many lives, it feels quite underpowered (besides the Fake Devil one). Jack claiming two revives indeed feels like BS vs "force other players to target you".

In fact, I think that scum and 3rd party roles might be significantly stronger than Town roles. With townies having buffing roles (Jim giving out deez nuts, for example) or inspecting roles (with caveats... but Vector had an inspection role too?)... ok I don't know.

[ToonyMan]

@Jim:
Okay NQT NQT.

I don't think Jack is Countdowner and he wants to be targeted, that's just how I feel even if you're suppose to play mafia by voting the player you think is most likely scum. I do think NQT is less suspicious than Jack, but I can't play this game the way I want.

I think Jack has an unexplained action failure last night because he's lying. I think town!Jack would be trying harder.

I think NQT is claiming an Omega inspect on me because he's lying. Redirection is the most likely answer if he's being honest, but then it hit Knightwing or TolyK or something? Do I believe mafia would be able to orchestrate that? I can't do it.

@Nakeen:
I think...that's an okay assumption.

[FallacyofUrist]

For context:

(1-Shot, Day, Mafiakill) Final Countdown: The end is nigh. This action can only be used on Day 4. When you use this ability, its full text is publicly revealed in the thread. The Mafiakill can no longer be used. If you are still alive at the end of Day 5, after the execution, kill every living non-mafia player in the game immediately, unstoppably, and irreversibly.

@MOD:
Would a town player survive the Final Countdown going off and killing every living non-mafia player in the game immediately, unstoppably, and irreversibly, be able to survive if they had some form of protection? Would any sort of protection stop a player from dying immediately, unstoppably, and irreversibly?

Well, if you're killed immediately, unstoppably, and irreversibly, then it resolves instantly, can't be stopped, and you can't come back to life afterwards. So there'd be no protection that works against it.

The two potential counters I can see would either be some extremely esoteric effect, or a commute type ability - even an unstoppable kill can't affect someone who isn't present in the game space, since they're not even a valid target.

[NJW2000]

Yeah... I feel like Nakeen looks more and more interested in a town victory the closer the final countdown gets, which is dubious, but possibly a quirk of their playstyle. I guess I probably can't get Nakeen today?

I'm genuinely unsure if NQT wants town to win too. Seems more like he's taking up space in the thread with stuff that obviously won't work or isn't helpful, or trying to push the elim onto Jack.

If EJ isn't scum, he's just very busy town. I don't think he's the countdown player, but I can't be 100% on this because it would be an effective WIFOM.

I could vote NQT today.


Mod: Would you mind doing a votecount?

[notquitethere]

Jim

Between TolyK voting for Vector for confusing reasons and notquitethere voting Vector for no given reason despite suspecting EuchreJack, which of them looks worse?

Ahoy! But I wanted that scurvy Vector gone from D2, did I not?

Why do you pick Vector on Day 3 over EuchreJack? On Day 2 it looked like you wanted webadict and then EuchreJack and then maybe Vector after that.

The Web flip! Arr, if you recall no one knew for sure Web was a mally until he died and the map pieces all it together. Vector was already in me top 2-3, and their connection with Web shunted them firmly into #1 place. Irony upon irony that being right about scum for once should make me look suspicious because town are meant to be bumbling no-nothings, savvy?

[notquitethere]

ARR of course I bleeding want town to win today. Why are you swallowing this poison pill narrative? I've tried to come in and understand who be a mutineer and then from there, I can decipher who is most likely the day killer. Avast ye curs, there's no point looking in a pool of town players for the countdown killer, aye?

Aye mateys, so I've been a might bit busy, but I'm back in the thread and I want to solve it. I don't know what bloody world Toony thinks scum have two day kills... but he's just in lalala confirmation bias land now.  His whole argument seems to rest on the belief that my inspect is faked to make him look bad... arrr, but I haven't even been arguing that in any shape way or form. What a load of bilgewater.

This whole thing is absurd, how in the blue blazes are we meant to know which scum player has a specific ability???????????????

So the only thing it seems to do is make the certain scum walk the plank and hope for the best. And that be EuchreJack

[notquitethere]

Oh and and I don't like the brig lurking, free-pass sucking KW and TolyK much for that matter, though they're a little lower in my scum rankings. The only person truly vouching for the pair of scabrous loafers is Toony who has spent today demonstrating that he can't tell his arse from his elbow.

(No offense matey but if you're town then you're wrong about me. But if you're not town, then full offense meant and I hope you get your ears nibbled by eels.)

[notquitethere]

(Arr, now, mind, I have my portion to blame in the proceedings. I shouldn't have got piqued about that sailor NJW, I should have followed through on me kill and used it to do in Web or Vector or one of the lurkers. That were my error.)

[TricMagic]

To Nakeen, TolyK's fluff is devil aligned rather than yugioh aligned.

[NJW2000]

I really don't think it's NQT, they'd have a daykill, a nightkill, and an everything-kill, it'd be an even more stupid and broken role, as we'd have no way to have any idea what they were doing ever and they could kill any player at any time.

(Arr, now, mind, I have my portion to blame in the proceedings. I shouldn't have got piqued about that sailor NJW, I should have followed through on me kill and used it to do in Web or Vector or one of the lurkers. That were my error.)

Eh, we didn't know it would come to this. I'm willing to clear you of the countdown on the basis that mafia don't get three kills.

Could it be TolyK? I don't really feel like it could. The miller thing seemed townie, and the panic when people piled up on them D1 looked real. Vector and EJ didn't love the TolyK wagon but EJ's comments were mid-day and Vector was handed a town-elim on a plate anyway, plus quite possibly was spreading WIFOM pre-flip.

Having another look at Toony's scum endgame play in some other games now. I feel like I keep coming back to Nakeen, but I guess I'd be willing to vote EJ too.

[NJW2000]

Yeah, don't think it's Toony or TolyK, after a reread. Don't think it can be NQT. Pretty sure it's not Jim, KW or TricMagic based on reads.

I'm willing to vote EJ or Nakeen.

Even if I'm right about alignments, still a 50/50. But it was always going to come down to that.


I do feel that eliminating scum should give an extra day on the timer or something. Would have felt much more reasonable.

[Mamobo]

Vote Count
------------------------
-> EuchreJack    --3-- TricMagic*, Jim Groovester*, notquitethere*,
-> notquitethere --3-- TolyK*, ToonyMan*, ToonyMan*,
TolyK            --1-- Nakéen*,
Jim Groovester   --0--
Knightwing64     --0--
Nakéen           --0--
NJW2000          --0--
ToonyMan         --0--
TricMagic        --0--
No One           --0--

Not Voting       --3-- EuchreJack, Knightwing64, NJW2000,

6 to Hammer. Day ends on November 09, 2022 at 18:00 Central Standard Time (9 hours and 6 minutes remaining.)

NOTE: In the event of a tie, no one dies, which is a severe injustice!

[notquitethere]

Arr, as for Nakeen... I know Nakeen targeted EJ. And the scurvy EJ's effect did seem to be delayed until today.. you reckon that is the pair colluding to get confirmed actions?