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[Jim Groovester]

I could put effort into Day 5 but I am questioning very hard if I do whether it would be worth it.

I am very aggravated about the Final Countdown power since it's a stupid fucking I win button that no mafia game has any business having, but probably more aggravating is that it changes the scum team's strategy from accumulating long term credibility while advancing goals into stalling for just long enough to win. Even sacrificing a member of the scum team is viable in this stalling strategy while under other circumstances it would be detrimental.



I think EuchreJack is scum and I have been denied multiple times to prove this. But he doesn't really give a shit since he made one post on Day 4 that was a vote on ToonyMan which is complete fucking nonsense. EuchreJack doesn't have stake in finding out who the countdowner is.

If ToonyMan is the countdowner then he's either on a team with notquitethere which doesn't work since it's a team without EuchreJack on it or a third party miller which I guess is possible but would be absolute fucking bullshit. ToonyMan has also shown investment the entire game and interest in finding out who the countdowner is. If ToonyMan is scum he would win without the final countdown so if ToonyMan is scum I am okay with him winning. I also don't think ToonyMan writes an angry rant about the Final Countdown if he's scum because if he did then that would be a cruel mockery of the town players.

NJW2000 has been inspected town twice now I think? The one shot bulletproof he got from Vector also procced during N4 proving that he was a target for Vector. I guess it's technically possible he could be scum but I think the odds are very low.

I don't think it's TricMagic. TricMagic has been consistently engaged all game long and also interested in who the countdowner is.

I also don't think it's Nakeen. Again, I feel like Nakeen has earnest interest in the outcome of this game.

I've been inspected as town and the Final Countdown is neither dragon nor nut flavored.

notquitethere is the interesting case. notquitethere pushed EuchreJack pretty seriously on Day 2 and was also one of the first people to vote Vector on Day 3. Does notquitethere do this if he' scum? I mean, maybe if he's got the Final Countdown in his back pocket. Does he attack juicebox on Day 2 if he's scum and misread his role? I mean, maybe. Does he cut NJW2000's throat and then not kill him if he's scum? This one is the most plausible I feel; I really don't like day kills being threatened and then not used. notquitethere has bad team synergy with confirmed scum Vector and probable scum EuchreJack but he could be playing the long game and have less interest in his teammates survival if he's the final countdowner.

Knightwing64 has been basically invisible. PPE: ToonyMan explains why Knightwing64 and Vector make a poor scum team.

During the six day period of Night 4 I thought the countdowner might be TolyK since getting to pick your role seems kind of broken and I think I recall mentions of him submitting a silly role and the Final Countdown is pretty broken and would fit a silly Shakeragian role. TolyK seems to care about who the countdowner is though.



So, I'm confused and don't know what to think other than EuchreJack is scum and maybe if we shoot him things might work out somehow but I doubt we'd be that fortunate. It would be nice if notquitethere was more clearly scummy but he's kind of a mixed bag. I have some reservations about TolyK but have a difficult time expressing why other than general unease.

I've been working on this post for a while now so it's time to post it and do something else.

Spoiler: Don't open for the faint of heart (click to show/hide)

Dude come on fuck this game.

I go into D4 100% wanting to vote obvscum Jack and instead we get this mafia day ability named after a fucking Yugioh card that implicates Juicebox just to screw with us. (Well played on Vector D1 to make Juice look worse.) Jack literally does nothing on D4 but vote me, doesn't even claim what they did on N3. I'm so sure they're mafia, but I think they're purposely acting as bad as possible at this point to draw attention away from the real Final Countdown mafia player.

So now we have NINE players and we have to hit ONE of them, and it might even be Jack himself double-bluffing!

Meanwhile idiot Tric drops the bomb that they didn't get the shot refill from Juicebox until EoD3 near the end of fucking Day 4 so Juice isn't even going to refill Jim since we fucking killed him.

If I knew that for sure earlier in the day I would have wanted to vote 100% mafia Jack off first so that even if the Countdown player was Jack's partner we would still have Jim able to shoot someone last night. I really don't feel mafia deserve a Final Countdown victory because it's complete fucking bullshit. We have hit scum 50% of the time in this game, why the fuck are we on the brink of death here? Mafia have killed one player at night, being roleblocked or delayed every other time.

So yeah, fuck this.

[color=red.][b.]Jack Jack[/color]

(Editor post note: I'm going to break the tag here just in case)

Jack is mafia. He tried to kill on N3 and Nakeen delayed them. Even if he's not the Countdown player (probably likely) he's dying today. I only accept defeat if he's not mafia. Even if "technically" mafia win because of a bullshit victory, they will have no celebration. The post-game of this thread will be town patting themselves on the back on how well they played, silencing any scum cheer.

NQT is probably the other mafia if there's a third. I guess the idea is that if NQT is the Final Countdown player then they want to smell like roses so if they can just stall and throw Jack under the bus then who cares since they'll win on Day 5.

This isn't that bad, really. You could've said much worse. TricMagic probably gets it the worst here out of anybody.

I already claimed trying to kill EuchreJack.

How come I'm not dead?

Night 4: Attempted to preform an investigation, that action failed, Instead Randomized Jim onto NJW2000.  Sorry NJW2000, but at least you didn't die!

You fucker, you already knew why you didn't die.

Asshole.

[ToonyMan]

I told people not to inspect NJW yesterday but TolyK didn't listen to me for some reason.

This does make me trust TolyK the least out of the players I think are town.

I was looking at Vector's posts in this game. It's hard for me to tell anything from them, especially after being wrong about Juicebox.

Jack and NQT both jumped on Vector pretty readily on D3 so if they're partners then they were already full on the Countdown plan at that point. I don't think mafia were playing to the Countdown wincon at first because they killed Max, but there's no evidence mafia tried to kill after that besides Jim blocking Jack on N2. Mafia probably don't want anybody to die if they're going for it since it makes it that much stronger.

[TolyK]

I'll be honest, I didnt see you saying not to inspect NJW. I saw him saying he was None-ing, so I wanted to be sure (plus I didn't have a good read on him). And Jack is the non-countdown mafia.

I want to reread, but remembering Webadict and NQT interaction (and also, frankly, reading Jim's thoughts on the matter above) I think it's likely NQT.

[Nakéen]

The 4th Night went terribly for everyone not on the Mafia side as there was overall zero, or even negative cohesion last Night. Of the potential 2 kills there could have been there were none, and the two claimed inspects didn't reveal very useful information.

Going over the list of claims.

Claims

EuchreJack: N3 randomizer on Jim [Most likely delayed to N4], then N4 failed investigation but randomizer on Jim again. Two simultaneous randomizers on Jim is an amusing thought, but it probably didn't do much.
Jim Groovester: N3 shot Jack. Jack lived. N4 shot Jack. Was randomized and it seems the shot went on NJW2000 who was under the Congregate status protection.
Knightwing64: redirected actions on Jack to Toony.
Nakéen: delayed Jack on N4, but was roleblocked by TricMagic. On Fire.
NJW2000: was set On Fire, died, came back no longer On Fire due to Congregate. No action, but was roleblocked.
notquitethere: robot scan on ToonyMan, flagged as Omega (3rd party). Contested by ToonyMan, so there may have been another instance of redirection or it's on NQT here.
TolyK: inspected NJW2000, setting NJW2000 On Fire with the power TricMagic gave them. NJW2000 flagged as Town. NJW2000 then died and revived, losing the On Fire status and with it an extra vote it would seem.
ToonyMan: watched Jim and saw Jack visit Jim. This confirms the randomizer claim.
TricMagic: roleblocked Nakéen. Probably also set Nakéen On Fire?

Additional notes:
- MafiaKill is disabled.
- TricMagic has a kill, but didn't use it.
- Jim used a kill, but it went on NJW2000 who died and lived instead of EuchreJack.

Well I will be honest, the situation hasn't changed all that much compared to Day 4 except juicebox is gone.


The Countdowner

Scum or likely Countdowner
EuchreJack the Undying: the unwillingness to accept death by randomizing Jim confirms once more that EuchreJack if not scum is at the very least very anti-Town. Honestly I still can't wrap my head around the fact EuchreJack is still alive, this is almost comical. Could be the Countdowner, but that seems too easy and one bizarre gambit if Jack really is the Countdowner. If only Jack had died earlier.

notquitethere the Buggy Ninja-Pirate-Cat-Robot: the most bizarre about NQT is that everytime they fire the inspect, somehow the target claims the result is wrong. First time was due to a misread, and second time we are not sure yet. Had a countdown kill, which thematically fits with the Final Countdown, but the last time we lynched someone due to a theme it didn't work that well. Still, that's no reason not to suspect NQT due to overall shadiness? NQT seems to be playing some mind games, but it's hard to tell if they help or confuse Town.

Town or unlikely Countdowner
NJW2000 the Martyr: a lot pointed toward Town, which was confirmed later by TolyK. But we already suspected NJW2000 wasn't the Countdowner due to expending all their actions. Immortal in a different way than Jack's.

ToonyMan the One who wanted post restrictions but got a lousy postman t-shirt instead: very consistent and claimed their entire role and actions, which can all be verified save for the Tiamat one. But given Toony mentioned Tiamat in an earlier day, they are likely not lying.

TricMagic the Erratic Dragon: seems to be trying to help but made the critical mistake of not using the Kill. It would have been better to kill me or someone else rather than roleblock me. So far has a Roleblock-Kill Breath, some kind of Inspect Gaze, some kind of Scales, and a Highlander ability of sort. To be fair TricMagic is still very much mysterious to me, but the Countdown doesn't seem to mesh well with Tric's early claim of gaining something from being the last dragon standing.

Not enough info, but could be the Countdowner
Jim Groovester the Jack-Hunting Dragon: I like because Jim has been shooting Jack for two nights straight. Apart from Deez Nuts and the kill, I have honestly forgotten if Jim had more abilities.

Knightwing64 the Redirect Dragon: I feel is very similar to me because they have only used a single action the entire game (Redirect). Probably because the rest of the toolkit sucks in comparison. Given we have no idea what KnightWing64 can do, it doesn't exclude them from being the Countdowner. May have a kill given the two other dragons have one, but then why did they not use it?

TolyK the Imaginary Devil: some kind of Imaginary Demon, who may be a 3rd party, or maybe not. Pass contracts with other players which involves some exchange of abilities? Mysterious and sketchy abilities wise, and seems built around choices even with choosing his role at game start.


It's still a shot in the dark though.


I am The Too Lazy Too Choose a Role. None of my actions have shots.
Forgetful Yawn, a Night Action that skips my target's Night Results to the next Night.
Weaponized Procrastination, a Night Action that delays my target's actions to the next Night. I am informed the next Night if a kill action was used.
Calculated Laziness, a Night Action that can only be used after I successfully used Forgetful Yawn or Weaponized Procrastination the previous night. If Yawn was used I can also see the skipped Night Results. If Weaponized Procrastination delayed a kill action, I can redirect the kill to a new target except for the source of the kill.
Late Arrival, an Auto that protected me from execution on Day 1. I had a post restriction associated to it: if I posted before everyone had posted, I would lose this protection.

[Nakéen]

I spammed Weaponized Procrastination the entire game.

[Jim Groovester]

I was looking at Vector's posts in this game. It's hard for me to tell anything from them, especially after being wrong about Juicebox.

Jack and NQT both jumped on Vector pretty readily on D3 so if they're partners then they were already full on the Countdown plan at that point. I don't think mafia were playing to the Countdown wincon at first because they killed Max, but there's no evidence mafia tried to kill after that besides Jim blocking Jack on N2. Mafia probably don't want anybody to die if they're going for it since it makes it that much stronger.

Vector did not give a single shit about being lynched. The lack of protest about it makes me think that it was a team decision.

I think TolyK votes Vector first, then notquitethere, then EuchreJack, followed by NJW2000 and then myself to close out the day. TolyK votes Vector because of association with webadict, which he does before we find out the nature of Congregation from NJW2000. Without knowing what Congregation does voting Vector because of association with webadict doesn't make much sense since webadict was a mafia ally and couldn't have been on a team with Vector. notquitethere votes Vector and then never explains why, which is odd since he expresses that he thinks EuchreJack is scum but opts for Vector without explanation. EuchreJack votes Vector to save his skin, which he does without hesitation, which if EuchreJack is scum points to a decision made early on in the day to bus Vector.

Between TolyK voting for Vector for confusing reasons and notquitethere voting Vector for no given reason despite suspecting EuchreJack, which of them looks worse? For whatever reason I don't mind TolyK voting Vector so much; it's not good reasoning but I could see it happening organically.

This is a good post. I don't think you're the countdowner because you give a shit about the game.

Vector also had it out for you all game long.

[ToonyMan]

I'll be honest, I didnt see you saying not to inspect NJW. I saw him saying he was None-ing, so I wanted to be sure (plus I didn't have a good read on him). And Jack is the non-countdown mafia.

I want to reread, but remembering Webadict and NQT interaction (and also, frankly, reading Jim's thoughts on the matter above) I think it's likely NQT.

Really? You didn't think NJW was town by D4? You could have inspected anybody else besides like Jim or Knightwing. I guess if you inspected Jack it would have went to me instead thanks to KW, but even that would be good to prove NQT's claim is false. In fact, nothing has come up to counter NQT's claim so either he's lying mafia or mafia messed with the results in some way. We can't change the past but I feel NJW was a poor choice.

PPE:
Nice post Nakeen.

[ToonyMan]

To be fair TricMagic is still very much mysterious to me, but the Countdown doesn't seem to mesh well with Tric's early claim of gaining something from being the last dragon standing.

This rings true to me. I don't think Tric is mafia either, but this reasoning is good.

I think the Countdowner has to 100% be inside Jack/NQT/Knightwing/TolyK so this needs to be true for us to have a chance.

[NJW2000]

Also, The Final Countdown does not seem to mesh with the lore of the post office (ha), so in any case it's not Toony we gotta elim.

Honestly? You're taking Toony at his word. Besides, Final Countdown would have been even sillier if it flavour-outed the player involved. If anything, we should elim toony for making us think that would work.

I mean, I did think it would work too... and the final countdown player wouldn't let on they had a yu-gi-oh role, if they'd googled final countdown at all... man, I think that action sent everyone's mafia ability back five years into the past. Come to think of it, all of Toony's stuff could be from Yu-Gi-Oh, including the Tiamat thing.

Still... unless there's something I'm not seeing with the 3rd party result claim from NQT, it's not relevant, as either Toony is 3p or NQT is scum. Or it's just a wacky but actually very safe gambit to protect the countdowner.


Ugh. Nakeen is still just posting analysis, but I guess it looks like they care. It's like they want town to win more and more this game, or at least to look that way. Might still be scum, I don't think we can reliably second-guess Vector's hyperfocus on them, which came across as a bit forced. WIFOM.

Maybe the scumteam is very small, which is why every mafia-aligned player so far is rewarded for dying, and Jack is just the last scum?

[notquitethere]

Jim

Between TolyK voting for Vector for confusing reasons and notquitethere voting Vector for no given reason despite suspecting EuchreJack, which of them looks worse?

Ahoy! But I wanted that scurvy Vector gone from D2, did I not?

Vector - 10
TolyK - 10
Nakeen - 7

Aye indeed the most quiet 3 were also the lowest posters on the first day. Arr... quality be not the same as quantity, but I have long observed that the most engaged players are usually not scum.

If we applied the same pattern to this game, it'd give us a scum team like Web/Jack/Vector.

Not a lot to be said there! I'm happy to drop anchor in Vector's port, so to speak, while we await the goods.

BUT if we wanted to make walk the plank someone who had nothing going for their claim, we'd throw overboard Vector, or perhaps the cabin boy KW (but not really KW, as his claim would have been easy to counterclaim, so there's no reason to suppose he'd lie that way).

Arr, either someone messed with me to give me a bad result or Toony is a third-party. As Toony denies it, we can be sure he's not a pro-town 3rd party, as he'd just confess t'were he that. And that's about all I can be sure... but what were the claimed actions? Searching for treasure now...

(Avast! What I am sure of if that his latest "full claim" is more barnacleshit. No way he by-chance submits a role name near identical to me own. His actions may be more or less truthfully reported, but the rest be nonsense.)

[Knightwing64]

Sorry for disappearing. I’m swamped with work right now. I’ll try to post more later in the day

[TolyK]

Sent in my day action. IDK when we'll see it, but we should soon. Not sure how to respond to being low-key suspected besides "eh", so I'll ignore it unless I get some questions (I know, I should've inspected someone else).

I'm still thinking whether the Final Countdown thing was planned ahead by the scum team or not. Because you can easily look town buy mercilessly bussing your teammates, and then win when you're not eliminated.

...

So, NQT vs Toony on the results. NQT claims Toony is 3p, Toony says that's false.

So, one of them is lying (thus anti-town) at the very least about that. Toony has had (mostly) verifiable actions so far. Unless he has only used the Countdown ability outside of everything else (he could've - he didn't force-block anyone that day, right?), that means NQT is lying.

Vector was Mafia. Webadict was mafia-ally. Jack seems quite anti-town - probably non-countdowner mafia. (Wait, why did we decide this?)

I somehow doubt that there are more than 3 mafia + mafia-ally. Not enough kills for a serial killer to be in the game (including an SK miller, ha). It seems much more likely that the inspection confusion and redirection was supposed to be the name of the game.

So, in my mind, it's NQT and Jack. And NQT's role seems much more like a countdown role. He even had a countdown role restriction.

...
Besides, Final Countdown would have been even sillier if it flavour-outed the player involved. If anything, we should elim toony for making us think that would work.

I mean, I did think it would work too... and the final countdown player wouldn't let on they had a yu-gi-oh role, if they'd googled final countdown at all... man, I think that action sent everyone's mafia ability back five years into the past. Come to think of it, all of Toony's stuff could be from Yu-Gi-Oh, including the Tiamat thing.

Still... unless there's something I'm not seeing with the 3rd party result claim from NQT, it's not relevant, as either Toony is 3p or NQT is scum. Or it's just a wacky but actually very safe gambit to protect the countdowner.

I mean, I wouldn't count out the flavor being misdirecting by itself. It could definitely lead to multiple people, e.g. "dragon" roles this game and such.

Maybe the scumteam is very small, which is why every mafia-aligned player so far is rewarded for dying, and Jack is just the last scum?

Maybe? With 14 players 3.5 scum players is much more likely than 2.5. I don't know whether prob of Jack being countdowner is higher than NQT being scum and countdowner.

[ToonyMan]

@NQT:
That is the role I submitted though. After the previous game I wanted a bad post restriction because I thought it would be funny. This is why I was upset when you and Web started this game talking with wacky post restrictions, Web appeared to be doing it for no reason though.

@TolyK:
I used Cool Shades yesterday and today. I didn't use Custom Restrictions because I wanted a publicly confirmable day action that was immediate instead of having to wait for another player to confirm the next day. I explained this on D4. This is no guarantee because I could have some way to double day action which I can't prove I don't, but that's mafia.

NQT insisted Juicebox inherently had double day actions when they voted him on D4 which I pointed out is incorrect and probably should have took more seriously since that's been NQT's MO this entire game: making incorrect statements.

[ToonyMan]

@TolyK:
There's nothing to say Jack isn't the Countdowner, however I believe he's acting like far too easy a target. This could be a double bluff, but based on Vector's own behavior I think Jack is in the same boat as Vector and doesn't care like Jim said.

[ToonyMan]

NQT and Vector voted Webadict over Jack on D2. I think Vector switched to Nakeen at some point.

Jack was voting TolyK.


After NQT slashed NJW's throat:

Looking at the other side, does this town clear NQT?
Revealing a day kill on Day 2 does not seem like something scum would do.

If NQT doesn't kill NJW and wastes their valuable daykill not killing then that's town points to me, even if their suspicion was correct and NJW really is mafia.

I agree with this.

I would say the opposite. You used the kill, you should see it through no matter the result. Taking it back for town points is something scum could do, especially with them almost confirmed by jack right now.

If NQT doesn't kill NJW and wastes their valuable daykill not killing then that's town points to me, even if their suspicion was correct and NJW really is mafia.

I agree with this.

Vector

At this point, we're purely speculating on the NQT Daykill. We don't know if it's reusable if cancelled.

If a player uses a daykill, then cancels it because they think their suspect under pressure appears actually town, this is townie behavior.

Jack and Vector reading NQT as townie if they don't kill NJW. Tric against that and snap voting Vector (he's been snap voting all game so that part is less relevant).