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[EuchreJack]

Unvote, since Web can't both be the Night 1 target of Vector and scumbuddies with Vector. I don't think Vector did the night kill.

[EuchreJack]

It's not just double actions at night, many players have day abilities (like myself and Juicebox). If mafia have day abilities that interfere with the following night we will have no idea and they'll be able to perform their night actions still.

Can someone confirm how redirections and busses are handled in this game? FoU does not inform players affected by them correct? That has been my assumption for player's behavior as I make this post.

This is a good point by Toonyman. Someone could do an action during the day, then a Night Action, then claim their day action as their night action.

Nakeen mentioned a delay action, and we know Fallacy games can feature such actions, so it's possible.

@Fallacy: Is there a default limitation that prohibits a player with both day and night actions from using one day action then another night action, one right after another?

[FallacyofUrist]

@Fallacy: Is there a default limitation that prohibits a player with both day and night actions from using one day action then another night action, one right after another?

No. By default, all players may use one Day action per Day and one Night action per Night.

[TolyK]

Unvote, since Web can't both be the Night 1 target of Vector and scumbuddies with Vector. I don't think Vector did the night kill.

Wait, but why not? It's an uncomfirmed action by Vector, that apparently inspected Web but hit the townie who happened to die... Nothing that can be confirmed except by wuba's "mod error" comment. And his non suspicion/town read of them. Non sequitir.

Could Vector have targeted with an untargetable mafia kill, for example? Or indeed it was redirect and not bus...

[TolyK]

When I got roleblocked my avatar slipped on something and did a faceplant before waking up hours later with TolyK's choice and Jim's nuts in my hands.

The choice? What one does with Jim's nuts. 

(that was a joke)

[NJW2000]

NJW2000 not believing the kill was redirected is nonsensical.  I claimed having a Kill.  I claimed several potential targets.  I claimed where it was going.  I see that as extreme evidence that scum kills me, regardless of player meta.  I'm basically setting myself up to be killed/roleblocked/redirected.

He's still got to be under the belief that I either don't have a kill, and I killed Maximum Spin, in spite of having two confirmed Actions, OR that ToonyMan and I are scum together, OR that I do have a kill, and did everything I did as scum, including making myself easily trackable, explaining how my action would fail beforehand, and also getting a list of viable targets for some reason.

His reasoning is flawed, though I'm about to espouse WIFOM:  Why would I claim my extra kill as scum?  Why would I advocate for a mafiakill on Maximum Spin?  I think that Maximum Spin is a terrible kill for me as scum, since it only makes me more likely to be found out, especially since Max and I look exactly the same.  The only factor that goes against that is that I kill Maximum Spin because it makes me look innocent by association.  That's a really dumb play, but it's a valid explanation.

I think he definitely is pushing that ToonyMan and I are scum together, though.  He's made that abundantly clear.  So, he's probably thinking that I'm covering for ToonyMan being Blocked.

I'd just like to hear his theory on that, since it's reasonable to suspect that he believe this in spite of how dumb it is.

I don't have a perfect explanation why you'd do what you've been doing as scum, because I don't know exactly what happened in the night or what all the abilities of every member of the scum team are. However, as an experienced player you know that playing in unexpected ways can do massive damage to town's ability to understand the night, so yeah, everything you wrote was the worst kind of WIFOM.

The idea that scum would never claim a vig kill is also nonsensical.

You can scream over and over that you must be town and that the kill must have been aimed at you, but I'm just not going to believe it without actual mechanical confirmation. Hysterically defending yourself like this isn't a good habit, web.

[notquitethere]

Arr, Toony, I made mistakes. I drank too much grog and was caught up in a wild torrent of discovery and posting. BUT everything ye said in your big D2 claims post is something I completely figured out fer meself. So credit where credits due, there's method in me madness. I got the exact sequence to make sense of all the claims long before ye.

I want to cut this "NQT be purposefully sloppy" line to the quick now. I puzzled out how the full set of claims fit together despite me initial mistakes and misreadings. Nobody said pirates were ever cautious and regimented!

Me only serious mistakes:

- Thinking "alpha" meant scum in me night results. "Alpha" musta put me in the mind of "alpha wolf". Wasn't til I rechecked my initial PM to see it were the other way around.
- Thinking KW did a bus not a redirection. That was a poor misreading, no excuse. Was being woolly headed. Maybe the weight of the bus I had in the last game making me jump to conclusions.


This Web vs NJW thing is unhelpful. On the chance that either of ye might both be town, can ye widen your scope?

Oh and Web, can ye fire the lurkertracker cannon?


TolyK, did ye ever explain why you left it until the end to claim miller? That's a borderline hanging offence.

[Knightwing64]

I get a perm extra vote if my second target gets killed. Which was mostly a bonus for me, because I suspected Max and wanted Web to be safe.

[TolyK]

TolyK, did ye ever explain why you left it until the end to claim miller? That's a borderline hanging offence.

No, I did not explain. For one, I didn't (and don't) intend on remaining a miller for long. For two, I wasn't too active earlier in day 1. Finally, by now I've claimed a significant portion of my current role (and part of my non-current role); I was quite hesitant to give too much too fast, but after the other claim had realized that claiming miller after being investigated is quite dumb & counterproductive.

And I suspected (correctly!) that inspects are pretty much nerfed in this game anyways. Turns out target redirection is a big thing.

[webadict]

The idea that scum would never claim a vig kill is also nonsensical.

Name one game.  The only games that come to mind are Serial Killers.

Who do you go after when you're wrong?  Who am I paired with? Obviously, you have made up your mind, so why not start hunting my teammates?  I think you tried a bit to think of these questions and could not, but I'd like to hear otherwise.

[ToonyMan]

@NQT:
We all make mistakes. That's how Escape from Monkey Island got made.

How do you think Jack got Soggy?

[webadict]

If anything, this game has taught me that NJW has bad takes and hates when his bad takes are called bad, but it's funny, so I'm gonna push his buttons.

Also, yes, I am posting this to egg him on because I think anger motivates him and also I think his bad takes lose Town the game.

[notquitethere]

TolyK, aye makes sense as far as it goes... and, excuse me if I missed it, why did you give Toony a buff?

Toony, ain't that the sorry truth. I've yet to set course for it, but I'm cautiously optimistic for the Return to Monkey Island.

As for Jack's meeting with the drink, that's about the only mystery left (other than the Big One, who murdered our matey Max).

Let's review the evidence:

My Soak action is supposed to Soak anyone that targets my Soak target plus three other people I target (because fuck me, my actions suck, that's why).  I targeted NJW but got Bussed, and I assume that the Bussing doesn't count for Soaking, but I'll ask Fallacy just in case.  TricMagic getting Soaked now makes sense, since he targeted Jim, so that one's solved.  EuchreJack getting Soaked doesn't unless EuchreJack also targeted Jim.

Possibility #1: EuchreJack has a free action, and used it to inspect me and then used his other action to target NJW and was bussed to Jim, and that's why he was soaked. He hasn't claimed because it was something nefarious.

EuchreJack has this to say:

Maybe NQT wore a Raincoat or is Soak-immune due to being a Robot? While the Robot getting me wet because someone threw water on it is interesting, I think someone just didn't claim either a soak or a redirect.

It's pure codswallop. I have no soaking-related abilities, raincoats or otherwise, and even if I did it's not clear how that would make EuchreJack wet. He's off course in a storm here. Then there's this:

I can confirm that both On Fire and Soaked status effects exist this game. Bit of a fire/water theme.

Possibility #2: NJW2000 is in some way related to soaking, given he knew about the effect on D1. What does the buccaneer know about soaking?

Possibility #3: Someone isn't claiming an additional redirect or soak because it be contradicting something else they already claimed.

Players might have double actions (arr, in fact, it's basically certain some do given Juicebox's ability) and so on top of the claims that currently fit together, one has done something extra, savvy?


Arrr, Web, did NJW answer yon question about his knowledge of soaking? I didn't spot it. Also, lurker tracker.

[TolyK]

Toony seemed one of the least likely to be scum, at the time. Also seemed one of the more likely people to agree to the choice (don't recall the exact reason I thought so).

[notquitethere]

Arr, and there be yet another minor mystery...

- Did the mutineers intend to throw Max overboard?
- Or were they targeting Webdadict?
- And was the cabin boy KW in on the act (like the failed scumredirection ploy in the last game)?

Web as someone who claimed a kill would have been an obvious target.


Seems ta me that there's a number of possible scenarios:

1. Scum really were among the low-posters, lurkers and non-voters and we should launch TolyK, Nakeen, Vector, and NJW in that rough order

2. Scum are a pack of fancy-playing privateers and are somewhere in Web, KW, Tric, EuchreJack, maybe even NJW: involved in complex web of synergising redirection actions to shuffle the kill around and launder themselves into having confirmed actions

3. Scum have a double actor (aye this is all but certain) and it was the traditional mix of a super-lurker, a background player and a power wolf.


NJW, pardon me bad old eye but I seem to recall you claiming why you bussed yourself with Jim. I just can't find the post now (searching has come up empty). Maybe I dreamt it?