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[TricMagic]

I agree that Biodiversity should probably be upcosted a bit. I haven't seen Fog of War, but if it lets you play two cards for 1*, that's really a problem with Fog of War.

That said, UMW doesn't make you lose; it just prevents you from winning. Once your opponent's at or below 0 Hearts, you just need to hold out long enough to pay off the star debt—which likely won't be hard if you just slapped down three Maids of your choice

You're also going to have to hit Surprise Precure if you do that.

... NQT, where is Surprise Precure?

[Elephant Parade]

Doesn't Surprise Precure require outside support to flip the cards it plays face-up?

[Stirk]

I agree that Biodiversity should probably be upcosted a bit. I haven't seen Fog of War, but if it lets you play two cards for 1*, that's really a problem with Fog of War.

That said, UMW doesn't make you lose; it just prevents you from winning. Once your opponent's at or below 0 Hearts, you just need to hold out long enough to pay off the star debt—which likely won't be hard if you just slapped down three Maids of your choice

Well if you're using a cheese deck like Elephant Parade then sure. If you're using a pure and innocent maid deck then its just a lose.

Maid star generation has been nerfed multiple times. I could play every Celestial Maid boy in my deck and not be able to play UMW without OGW >_>. The only other non-illegal maid star generating card is Constellation Maids, which does give you 3 stars but leaves you completely open.

[TricMagic]

Doesn't Surprise Precure require outside support to flip the cards it plays face-up?

Nope. Just need to wait a turn, then flip it whenever. Not instant play, but still very useful. Only downside is both flip at once, so you can't pick and choose.

... Surprise!-mepo.

Quick Dial is also a thing-mipo.

[Elephant Parade]

Well if you're using a cheese deck like Elephant Parade then sure. If you're using a pure and innocent maid deck then its just a lose.

Maid star generation has been nerfed multiple times. I could play every Celestial Maid boy in my deck and not be able to play UMW without OGW >_>. The only other non-illegal maid star generating card is Constellation Maids, which does give you 3 stars but leaves you completely open.

Leaves you completely open to... three 1/1 tokens that your opponent can't keep around without giving you stars every turn? If the current Maids don't give enough stars, I guess the fix here is to either (a) submit more Maid stargen cards, (b) run non-Maid stargen cards, or (c) summon cheaper cards with UMW.

Nope. Just need to wait a turn, then flip it whenever. Not instant play, but still very useful. Only downside is both flip at once, so you can't pick and choose.

... Surprise!

Oh, are you allowed to flip your own cards on your turn? That makes sense, but I didn't see anything about it in the rules.

e: Hold on, can a card attack the turn it's first flipped face-up? If so, I'm changing my assessment of Surprise Precure from "probably balanced" to "totally busted".

[TricMagic]

Probably should be in there. Think you can't flip them face-up on the turn they're played. But nothing preventing you from flipping them afterward. Star Shooting Through Time has a restriction and lets you play 3 cards. Arrival also lets you play three, but it's condition is a bit out there.

We also got a case of Shining Star and Lost Hope. And Mint Protection which just shuts down attacks and damage against cards. (And Paths which can just outright copy hands to equalize the playing field.)

[Stirk]

Well if you're using a cheese deck like Elephant Parade then sure. If you're using a pure and innocent maid deck then its just a lose.

Maid star generation has been nerfed multiple times. I could play every Celestial Maid boy in my deck and not be able to play UMW without OGW >_>. The only other non-illegal maid star generating card is Constellation Maids, which does give you 3 stars but leaves you completely open.

Leaves you completely open to... three 1/1 tokens that your opponent can't keep around without giving you stars every turn? If the current Maids don't give enough stars, I guess the fix here is to either (a) submit more Maid stargen cards, (b) run non-Maid stargen cards, or (c) summon cheaper cards with UMW.

Nope. Just need to wait a turn, then flip it whenever. Not instant play, but still very useful. Only downside is both flip at once, so you can't pick and choose.

... Surprise!

Oh, are you allowed to flip your own cards on your turn? That makes sense, but I didn't see anything about it in the rules.

It leaves you completely open as you just spent a turn without adding a card to your side of the board. If I wanted to use Constellation maids to power UMW without hax, I would have to have an open field for 3 turns giving your opponent complete board control.

(a) submit more Maid stargen cards

I do, then everyone keeps nerfing them in a jealous rage at the power of maids V_V.

(b) run non-Maid stargen cards

No

(c) summon cheaper cards with UMW.

Then it is just kinda explicitly worse than Biodiversity? The thing with high cost stars is they arn't useful unless you can play them so you can't fill your deck with them without possibly bricking yourself. A search card is useful for playing strong cards since you can just put one or two in your deck and be able to play them with the search, if you're going to play weak cards anyway you can just fill your deck with them and not need a search.

Is it really worth 14 stars just to play 3 2 star cards from your deck?

[TricMagic]

I'm not particularly happy with the change to Lambsurection either. Even if I'm not playing said deck anymore. As is their only method of discard is a unique card now.

[Elephant Parade]

I'm not particularly happy with the change to Lambsurection either. Even if I'm not playing said deck anymore. As is their only method of discard is a unique card now.

Not true:



I think that between Gravedigger, non-archetypal discard effects, and the possibility of directly playing Divine Lambiture, the archetype remains viable. And you could always submit more.

[Stirk]

I'm not particularly happy with the change to Lambsurection either. Even if I'm not playing said deck anymore. As is their only method of discard is a unique card now.

Why not? It turns an overpowered card into an overpowered card. It works great in both its intended deck and other decks. It is a zero star card that can summon a card of any star cost from the graveyard, without having to spend stars. It doesn't activate the on-summon effects but you can still use it for cards like Praised Lamb (lets you double dip in return for hearts X2), Lamb's Gravedigger, reviving Heralding Lamb, etc. You could also design a card that has a negative on-play effect in return for extra stats then use your card to not have to deal with it. Like you could theoretically make a card with a high star cost, absurd attack, direct hit, and 1 heart as a penalty and summon it easily.

I think the real problem with the change is that 8 star cards are supposed to be overpowered. All the 0 star cost cards where pretty clearly overpowered for 0 star cards, and all their nerfs kept their basic function intact. 0 star cards are supposed to be weak. Before the nerf UMW's only real common use was triple dipping into OGW's cheese. OGW's weakness was that it gave your opponent the same effect and cost a turn and a star so you where technically behind in cards cost, UMW fixed this issue by letting you effectively use its effect three times so now you came up ahead. Now I can't use it like that since it now has full star cost for all the cards, and as above I can't generate enough stars to make it viable withing giving in to the cheese side.

Like a card that summons any card you want from your deck is 1 star. A card that lets you use two other cards is one star. A card that can kill you in two hits and can't be destroyed by card effects is 7. A card that lets you play an extra free card from your graveyard is 3 stars. Before it got banned there was a 7 star card that let you summon your opponent's entire graveyard. An 8 star card is supposed to be a game winner, and it just kinda sucks now >_>. It could at least have its price dropped to something more reasonable if it gets nerfed that hard.

[notquitethere]

Stirk, I think you're missing the fact that UMW let's you pick whatever three cards in your deck, allowing you to set up whatever game winning combo you want. That's more powerful than Biodiversity playing whatever cards fortune has landed in your hand. If you can gen enough stars to play UMW, I think you can probably gen enough to pay off a debt once you've granted yourself total board supremacy and kept that supremacy for a few turns.

I did wonder if it is now too expensive. Play any card in your deck for its normal cost is worth at least 2 star, multiply that by three, and then add the fact you can go into debt to play literally anything (a three star effect), but minus the fact they have to be maids, though there are a lot of maids... 8 seems fair. If no one can get it to work in practice, then we it can be reviewed to be cheaper.
---

As for Surprise Precure, it's now probably a little better than Biodiversity, sure, but the important thing is: both cards have a star cost. Card flipping may have been more ambiguous when Precure was made, about whether cards could self flip or not.

[notquitethere]

Spoiler: More Reviewed Cards (click to show/hide)

About 3-4 points for each additional star cost, so that would give us about 12 to play with. -Tentacle Kitty/Cosmic Isopod establishes quickplay + gain a star is worth 4 points, so -4. -1 for not having to play it (i.e. more flexible as a discard fodder, etc.), leaves us with about 7 for stats: borderline unplayable for a 2 star card, but a nice effect.



I just made this more expensive and squashed some of the more egregious card spam combos. Let's see how it pans out.

[Elephant Parade]

Also, OGW+UMW has amazing synergy with another Maid card: Mirror Maid. If your opponent uses their OGW card to kill you before you can play UMW, you can play Mirror Maid and say nuh-uh.

My friend, you have made a terrible mist—

NO

[notquitethere]

Uh oh, there's an unintentional ambiguity with 'unique' which I think I'll have to correct: I meant unique as in, no duplicates among the discarded, not Unique as in the keyword. Though it would be funny to interpret it strictly, and encourage a Unique-maxxing deck with this card.

[Elephant Parade]

Uh oh, there's an unintentional ambiguity with 'unique' which I think I'll have to correct: I meant unique as in, no duplicates among the discarded, not Unique as in the keyword. Though it would be funny to interpret it strictly, and encourage a Unique-maxxing deck with this card.

Oh, I got that much; I just missed the word at first, got really excited about a potential combo, went back to double-check, and got hit by the limitation like a truck.

e: do you get to choose the effect now, or is it still random?