Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Great Order]

Now I knew there was an undercurrent of racism in the UK but Christ I didn't think it was bad enough that they'd feel brazen enough to be trying to foment race riots.

[Funk]

The media loves to get a few right wing voices for outrage "for balance"   
When they can't get them they get cranks an crazys , a debate on train lines will have a PHD, a businessman and that guy that thinks the metal rails disrupt the laylines.

The same media likes to hype up events, so a bit of drunken thuggary and looting is now being called a civil war...

[hector13]

Well it’s been violence toward the police in lots of cities over a number of days, it’s gone beyond drunken looting, certainly, and that targeting of the police is because of social media misinformation about them hiding the extent to which they knew about the perpetrator of the attack in Southport.

[Starver]

As a kind of benchmark, there have been local instances of rioting/civil misbehaviour at other times, like the time after those kids on the illegal scooter being killed in an accident after being 'chased' by the police-van (though it was affer they'd escaped from the attention of the police vehicle, just apparently before they'd stopped riding recklessly enough to get killed down the road). These things happen, occasionally, locally.

We've not really had a spattering of widely linked episodes, though, since the Duggan case (2011). There was yet another "police 'chase' antisocial kids, they die" (or was it just the one kid, this time?) shortly after the above episode, but it was a proper catalysis of an equivalent local incident plus zeitgeist, and probably 'helped' to stay in the public awareness by having overlapping news-cycles.

There are loads of little powder-kegs, which occasionally blow up (and perhaps draw attention to themselves if they cluster at all), but they seem to be just local 'breaking point' things or just happen to happen.

News-reporting 'artificial associations' aside, though, either the circumstances have changed to spark off the catalysis (we've had sufficiently advanced social-media for years now, and that probably inspired 2011's copy-cat rioting, so it's not like comparing post-Twitter with pre-Twitter/etc) a surprising amount of coincidental near-boiling situations have just happened to mature or there's more of an actual invisible hand in it.

There's a bit of coincidence. From what little I know, the Southend incident (not to confuse with Southport!) was more Brightonesque mods and rockers. And the ...Leeds one..? was a protest directly against a child-safeguarding 'raid'. Probably helped to enpower those who would (if I have them in order) find their own reasons to play up in Aldershot, Tyneside, Bristol, Stoke or Hull events (the ones I can remember), but you needed more than a nudge from the News At Ten. (I'm not judging the causes of the Belfast hotspot at all... There's so many established reasons why there'd be trouble there that you couldn't really designate a tipping-point cause without much actual argument between those applying their own critical eyes to the question.)


Also, it's equally worrying if this is just the norm, going forward, for cliff-edge resentments to spiral out like a bunch of ping-pong-ball-baited mousetraps filling a room. Like we did, for a while, look like we'd get motorway go-slow protests until the end of time (initially as fuel protests), but of course we'd get such things superseded. (After quite a gap, modern motorway protests have stopped being "we want cheaper petrol" to "we don't want anyone to use petrol"... ) The switch between "the police don't do enough [against Them]" and "the police do too much [against Us]" is perhaps a more straightforward transition that doesn't need a gap to arise between (indeed, they can overlap and tongue-and-groove quite nicely, thanks!), if that's what our near-future holds.


Oh, I'm out here on the edge. I can't tell you what the feelings and motivations are, on the ground. You'd be better asking me what I think of the potential for reavers to start rampaging cross-border and stealing livestock, than why certain inner-cities (and potential outer-suburbs) might attract prptests. That may or may not be a bonus from an overview basis, but would probably be better in the hands of someone who has more elementary sociological skills than me, as well.

[Great Order]

Well I encountered what is certainly a take.

The riots aren't far-right, they're normal moderates who are fed up with immigration.

I know it's not entirely relevant but I need to post this somewhere because my gasts are flabbered.

[hector13]

Apparently Tommy Robinson is also trying to stir up trouble around a stabbing in Glasgow, promoting the rumour that it was a Muslim and three people were stabbed, when it was one woman stabbed by a white man.

It’s disgusting that he is using tragedies as fodder to encourage political violence.

[Starver]

Apparently Tommy Robinson is also trying to stir up trouble around a stabbing in Glasgow, promoting the rumour that it was a Muslim and three people were stabbed, when it was one woman stabbed by a white man.

It’s disgusting that he is using tragedies as fodder to encourage political violence.

Oh, do be fair. What else would Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon do if he ever fled "the land that he loves" to escape a contempt-of-court over previous libelous lies, with nothing to do but to try to make the best of your hardship in a 5-star hotel in Cyprus.

[hector13]

Apparently Tommy Robinson is also trying to stir up trouble around a stabbing in Glasgow, promoting the rumour that it was a Muslim and three people were stabbed, when it was one woman stabbed by a white man.

It’s disgusting that he is using tragedies as fodder to encourage political violence.

Oh, do be fair. What else would Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon do if he ever fled "the land that he loves" to escape a contempt-of-court over previous libelous lies, with nothing to do but to try to make the best of your hardship in a 5-star hotel in Cyprus.

I didn’t know he’d gone to Cyprus to live in the lap of luxury.

Regular man of the people.

[Maximum Spin]

Any updates on this situation in the last couple of hours? I've been hearing some pretty concerning reports.

[Great Order]

I saw a video of a skinhead getting the shit kicked out of them by counter-protestors. Beyond that I'm not hearing much, it's more that it's continuing on. People getting checked for whiteness by rioters, looting, counter-protests being organised, that sort of thing.

We need some rain, or the footy to come back. That'd act like a firebreak probably.

[hector13]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c84jjv7kp1wo

Things like this give me hope. Not everybody at these riots is in it for the violence, they just want to be heard.

[Great Order]

Well, I got to see one rioter take friendly fire. Brick hit him in the back of the head, one bounced off a riot shield and hit him in the throat, and a final one got him in the nads.

Honestly, kind of funny.

[StrawBarrel]

Yeah that video was funny.
Violent protest sees UK man pelted with bricks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI3XzOHQgJk

https://tvpworld.com/79594837/russian-fake-news-provoked-southport-riots-claims-uk-daily
Russian fake news provoked Southport riots claims U.K. daily

The false information was further perpetrated by Russian state media and far-right activist Tommy Robinson, as well as by controversial social media influencer Andrew Tate who told his 10 million followers that an “illegal immigrant” had stabbed “six little girls” and urged his followers to “wake up.”

Before the suspect’s name had been released, the false identity had been mentioned more than 30,000 times on X and was being amplified by far-right leaders, according to the Institute for Strategic Dialogue (ISD), a counter-extremism organization. The ISD’s director of communications, Tim Squirrell, told CNN that attacks are always followed by people speculating about the attacker’s ethnicity.

“White nationalists will seize on any opportunity to spread misinformation about Muslims, about anyone who’s not white,” he said. “So they were immediately on it—and were happy to spread basically whatever would confirm their presuppositions about who had done it.” He said the false identity and all other information was entirely fictitious though it remained unclear who was responsible.

“They gave out details that were basically designed to pick up the attention of the far-right, and also for anyone who is concerned about migration,” he said.

The far right is pretty dangerous and will try to scapegoat immigrants and minorities.

[Starver]

Smoking ban/phase-out being attacked with classically  insensitive words.

"Nobody is suggesting that banning smoking outside pubs can be equated with what happened to the Jews at the hands of the Nazis." ...that pretty much is what you were doing, intentionally or otherwise. If it was an accident (we can all be genre-blind at times), it should be so easy to retract the unfortunate association and find another way to make your point.

"It is called an analogy" - which means you are equating it. Wikipedia entry: Analogy is a comparison or correspondence between two things (or two groups of things) because of a third element that they are considered to share.

"I am pretty sure everyone understands the point I was making and knows that no offence was ever intended and that no equivalence was being suggested. I will not be bullied into removing a tweet by people who are deliberately twisting the meaning of my words and finding offence when they know none was intended." => F You, I fully intended to be offensive. I just have enough of a modicum of sense not to say that in public.


Oh, really, there's so much more that could be talked about here (Starmer's "Things will only get worse"; the bulging prisons that are probably among the main reasons Sunak needed to get the GE over with so early; various housing crises; issues affecting Scotland(/other nations), or not affecting them; all the additional competing reasons why Britain is/was/will be broken...) but I decided to mention this one.

(I'm not a smoker, never have been, and am annoyed by people who already smoke/vape where smoking/vaping is barred. I'm not sure that extending the 'geofenced' limitations will work anyway, further beyond the sight of anyone who can "have a word" with offenders. And underage imbibing of either product already clearly happens, so when it's a 25-year-old at the time the lower limit is 27 then I imagine that'll be no less ignored. But anything that means that I don't find myself involuntarily in ostentatiously choking clouds of the stuff (either burnt tar or vapoury butterscotch) in the future, just because I'm anywhere up to 100yds downwind, is probably worth it in the longer run.)

[Maximum Spin]

"Nobody is suggesting that banning smoking outside pubs can be equated with what happened to the Jews at the hands of the Nazis." ...that pretty much is what you were doing, intentionally or otherwise. If it was an accident (we can all be genre-blind at times), it should be so easy to retract the unfortunate association and find another way to make your point.

"It is called an analogy" - which means you are equating it. Wikipedia entry: Analogy is a comparison or correspondence between two things (or two groups of things) because of a third element that they are considered to share.

Oh come on, don't be intentionally obtuse. Comparing two things isn't the same as equating them - things are only equal if they are like in all ways. An analogy is not an equation.