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Author Topic: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics  (Read 28536 times)

Starver

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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #135 on: October 22, 2022, 01:59:12 am »

(That was about a week ago, and has been rumbling on for most of that time, so not sure why some newswires were unaware of it then suddenly were. It's either news or it isn't (probably the former, for anyone who cares) and not something hidden away under secrecy or anything. So perhaps only actually filled a gap in NYT coverage, eventually?)

Have a BBC link, the most recent I could find (filed under "China", admitedly), and an earlier one (UK news) that I don't think was the earliest I saw, but has the blow-by-blow set out nicely.


@ninjaLidku: Word is that Chinese diplomats (and 'diplomats') tend to not want to look bad to Xi/home authorities, so will act all "holier loyaller than thou" to extremes like this just to not get told off for ignoring vicious provocations like... protesters saying "down with this sort of thing" and "careful now". They feel pressured to over-react. Which probably happens with other consular/etc presences, but seems to be something culturally affecting China (especially in "yeah, we can stand outside the gates of Number 10 and boo at our own HoG, fair play to them, just don't impede the traffic too much" countries, like our own) much more at the moment...

Double-ninjaed, now, but nothing more to add beyond the unpaywalled link. (Might be GreatFirewalled, but then I suspect NYT already is... ;) )
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EuchreJack

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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #136 on: October 22, 2022, 02:12:05 am »

Thanks for the info!

The presence of the Consul-General probably encouraged the other members of his staff to more aggressive action.  The fact he would be so brazen is probably a result of the weak political situation in Britain. So I retract my earlier question about relevance.

Loud Whispers

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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #137 on: October 22, 2022, 06:35:34 am »

OHJ MY GOPD WHAT IS THIS COLLAR SHIT ABOUT WTHJLKJSDLKFJSLKDF

THE RABBIT HOLE IS WORTH THE TRIP FOLKS

https://twitter.com/LillianaFuture/status/1568052444977922048

I CAN'T LAUGH PROPERLY

Spoiler: BAHAHAHAHA (click to show/hide)
Dare you enter my magical realm?

The incident is pretty bad, but it's just going to be one of those things that China does, that will be summarily ignored; especially with the current chaos happening in the UK Parliament right now.
Might not be ignored by China though. This is one of those unfortunate things for those consular staff, where they can be blamed for being too soft and blamed for overreacting. RIP their careers

Starver

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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #138 on: October 22, 2022, 09:34:18 am »

...this is of course decidely ChinaNews, but with Hu Jintau possibly having overstepped (or understepped?) some line or other...

I think they'll find themselves Ok for having reacted fervently. China doesn't strike me as being embarassed/apalled or in any way significantly inconvenienced by such actions (given all the other national awkwardnesses they freely commit, up to and including things Taiwan-focussed). A feather in their caps, or at least avoid the greater ignominity of having effectively smiled at behaviour that would never have been tolerated (and undoubtedly punished in the homeland - including HK, and in some imagined future throughout RoC when it is transfered into PRoC hands.


The British angle is that not as much complaint has been made about it as might have been in other Western hosts (and some non-Western ones, not themselves feeling indebted alreay, might be quite sharp). Surprisingly, no Chinese complaint has been made about the 'rescue by intrusion'... At least publically, that I noted. Possibly a sign that (however much they actually approved of their staff) at a high level they didn' feel it was a legitmate cause to have been actioned in the first place.

But who can tell with low-grade (if extraordinary) International Incidents like this. And various private discussions and communications that doubtless fly around behind the scenes.
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EuchreJack

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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #139 on: October 22, 2022, 10:43:30 am »

There also the fact that China's Government would very much like to pretend nobody is opposing them.
Thus the Counsel being in the News is a No-No, since it gave the Democracy Advocates a greater platform and sympathy.

The better tactic would have been to wait until nightfall and the protesters left, then destroy all the signage.

Alternate theory: The incident was staged and approved at the highest levels to gauge Britain's ability to exercise surveillance and control. If Britain can do little on their own soil, then China knows they have a free hand in Hong Kong.

Loud Whispers

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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #140 on: October 22, 2022, 11:03:13 am »

...this is of course decidely ChinaNews, but with Hu Jintau possibly having overstepped (or understepped?) some line or other...
Maybe Xi just doesn't want any character around him who could feasibly replace him. A former world leader may not be someone he wants nearby him when he's in the middle of becoming the undisputed gigalord

Starver

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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #141 on: October 22, 2022, 01:58:11 pm »

There also the fact that China's Government would very much like to pretend nobody is opposing them.
Thus the Counsel being in the News is a No-No, since it gave the Democracy Advocates a greater platform and sympathy.
That's a given. With the possible exception of Bridge Man (the news of his action circulated internally despite the usual heavy machine of censorship activating around all mention of the issue) there's probably a dearth of common knowledge within China about anything the top brass don't feel is germaine (or cannot spin to their cause).

I imagine in-country Democracy Advocates are whistling in the wind with what little internal publicity there is from this action. And out-of-country ones (like those who had the protests that led to this) can do pretty much as little about it, insofar as back-home is concerned, as ever.

Letting posters stand longer wouldn't be any more useful than (as hoped?) driving the protestors away. On balance, I don't see it having been better for the servants of the authoritative regime to have held back and risked an indeterminate escalation of protest without any official reaction. Were all protestors going to even leave (and leave their material materially unguarded) at night? Doesn't sound like typical protestor behaviour, on balance, and doesn't sound like good anti-protestor taskforce behaviour to depend upon it.

Look (e.g.) at the wave of pro-Tibet protests in 2008, across Europe/the West in general. With the difference being that (in the UK, but similar to the French/etc situation with their own local services) the Met arrested individuals who were deemed to be ringleaders in a situation which was embarassing (politically) to the UK, in the year of the Beijing Olympics.

There's comparatively fewer political reasons to kowtow (fig. or lit.) to China, right now and several interesting new ones to let them eat a bit more of the general protesting. If the PM has any thoughts of having a say in the matter, they (he, she, and now whoever is next) have had other bigger concerns so there'll probably not be the same crackdown as then, especially after having had to respond (and positively so) to Hong Kong residents who have had their promised continuity of democracy dashed, and the de-facto alliance (or strict neutrality yet having a definite lean) with Russia. Amongst so many other things.


(I haven't heard much about why Hu wandered off, 'escorted'. I suspect we're supposed not to know, at least until we're told (something, correct or not). I doubt he will be 'disappeared', but it does sound a bit like "gone to retire to my dacha (in Siberia)"/being put on the bus, rather than having to be put on trial for something to fully discredit (whichever nuancsd parts Xi wishes to discredit of) his legacy in order to reinforce his own. It could be full on Game Of Thrones stuff, or just "about time the old guy just retires". It could even have been Hu just asking not to be part of the new era, before it ever became necessary to be asked to do so. I don't think Hu has a comeback in him. But then I didn't think Boris did (one of those Comback Kids, I know, but I felt sure that this was it, this time) yet he's possibly going to surprise us. Definitely has the momentum to surprise us. Just needs to poke the right ultra-minority support-base at the right time.)
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EuchreJack

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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #142 on: October 22, 2022, 02:53:47 pm »

"Who else but Boris?"
-slogan that puts Boris back into office

Loud Whispers

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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #143 on: October 22, 2022, 03:12:42 pm »

It's hilarious hearing about the Rishi vs Boris leadership struggle when only Penny Mordaunt's announced her leadership bid. I'm sure that's bound to change eventually but for now let's go Penny woooooo

Got to say I don't know a lick about her so I hope I don't end up having to eat eggs on an out of context quote 5 years from now when PM Mordaunt announces we're privatising haemogoblin

Dorsidwarf

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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #144 on: October 22, 2022, 03:33:11 pm »

It's hilarious hearing about the Rishi vs Boris leadership struggle when only Penny Mordaunt's announced her leadership bid. I'm sure that's bound to change eventually but for now let's go Penny woooooo

Got to say I don't know a lick about her so I hope I don't end up having to eat eggs on an out of context quote 5 years from now when PM Mordaunt announces we're privatising haemogoblin

I heard Sunak has 100 MPs backing and hasnt even declared yet
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hector13

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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #145 on: October 22, 2022, 04:54:14 pm »

The Beeb have a page dedicated to MOs that have either publicly declared support for someone or has told them in the record who they support, and Sunak did indeed have 117 the last I looked at it (Boris had 54!)

Let’s see… here. Looks like Boris lost one and Sunak is way ahead.
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hector13

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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #146 on: October 22, 2022, 10:07:15 pm »

Johnson and Sunak apparently had a meeting, though in private, so let’s speculate wildly!

I don’t think Boris really has anything to offer, I think he’s bluffing that he has 100+ MPs supporting him in order to gain some sort of concession from Rishi by offering to stand aside. Allegedly the party membership (the people who would vote in a contest if there were more than one contender) favour Boris - WHY!? - so he’s wheeling and dealing to become part of the government or something.
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Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

the way your fingertips plant meaningless soliloquies makes me think you are the true evil among us.

anewaname

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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #147 on: October 23, 2022, 01:16:00 am »

Johnson and Sunak apparently had a meeting, though in private, so let’s speculate wildly!

I don’t think Boris really has anything to offer, I think he’s bluffing that he has 100+ MPs supporting him in order to gain some sort of concession from Rishi by offering to stand aside. Allegedly the party membership (the people who would vote in a contest if there were more than one contender) favour Boris - WHY!? - so he’s wheeling and dealing to become part of the government or something.

Okay okay... wild speculation... the meeting involved Boris, Sunak, Truss, a cage and a whip.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #148 on: October 23, 2022, 03:51:19 am »

What happens in no10 stays in no10

Grim Portent

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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #149 on: October 23, 2022, 05:23:57 am »

Johnson and Sunak apparently had a meeting, though in private, so let’s speculate wildly!

I don’t think Boris really has anything to offer, I think he’s bluffing that he has 100+ MPs supporting him in order to gain some sort of concession from Rishi by offering to stand aside. Allegedly the party membership (the people who would vote in a contest if there were more than one contender) favour Boris - WHY!? - so he’s wheeling and dealing to become part of the government or something.

Someone claiming to be a Tory party member actually called in to one of the news shows earlier and said Rishi isn't British because he's brown. There's been a noticable uptick in racism and US style dogwhistling conspiracy theory type nonsense in the Tory party for a while now, Boris fits neatly into that type of politics.
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