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[TricMagic]

PFP

I need to go to bed so I can't address everything right now. I'm posting from phone so it's hard for me to quote.

1. I made an inconsistent statement about 4mask earlier where I said I didn't like them using other people's views as their own to vote Tric. That isn't true I must have misremembered then. Reply #275.
2. I've been flipflopping on Tric because I couldn't see him as being mafia with anyone, which I want to attribute to 4mask's play.
3. Tric has called me Evil every time I get aggressive with 4mask and accuse 4mask. It's happened twice now. Reply #330 #379. Even 4mask has mentioned it.
4. Here is my favourite part. I was confused why Tric was still going after Jack and not trying to save himself more by making up a reason to vote 4mask back when Tric and 4mask were leading wagons, this could very well be because Tric does not want to vote 4mask. Reply #274.

Just outright ignore the elephant I revealed why don't you? Why are you backing off so easily, is it cause you no longer have a need to pressure me?

I was falling asleep in bed. I want to respond to 4mask as well when I can.

What is saying you're a Warden mean? Do you plan on saying more or are you just saying that to sound authorative? Why are you defending 4mask so hard, but didn't have them on your townread list?

I'm all for Max too, I don't see the Jack/Max/Toony team being wrong right now.

You are at least 80% wrong since I'm town. Jack is town. And Max is probably town.

Isn't it funny how your "Boom these are my 3 scumreads" at the start of game hasn't evolved at all? It's like you have a set plan you're following for the day.

First, 4mask hasn't rally shown anything that makes me suspect him. Second, that was not my starting scum team pairing. Saying so is disingenuous since I came to that conclusion after reading all the posts. Third, that single sentence just makes me double-down even harder since you'd really like to push others into thinking it's crazy.

Also, saying Max is probably town is very distancing. Their latest reveal Just means they are going to get converted, but it's also a manner to put pressure on Lenglon by saying there is a team of monsters. How would they know that?

nin. Max doesn't really have anything to get out of this lynch, so they spill something false and then retire for the day to stop giving info. If they survive, great! If they don't, they've no longer given any info on their teammates we could get out of them.

[Jim Groovester]

I don't care what you want out of the interaction, I only care about what I want.

If you're town, then wtf why are you concealing your genuine suspicion????????????????

wtf seriously wtf

Because it's not that strong, and at the time, I decided to exercise discretion and try to look into other targets about which I might be able to say something stronger.

Ultimately, I didn't find any. I only think that Tric, Jack, and Knightwing are probably town. Admittedly, you're coming off as town here too.

'I only vote when I'm SUPER SERIOUS about it'
'ha ha i was just messing with notquitethere ha ha'
'but actually I wasn't joking i was serious'
'but it still wasn't that strong ha ha
that's why i only pretended not to be serious about it
but still serious enough to vote for notquitethere ha ha'

What is this evolving explanation?

I have doubts that lynching you catches scum, but I can't argue that you don't deserve it.

Regarding Max: I refuse to vote Max the Survivor right now. I do not think Max is town, as I have said repeatedly, but I also am willing to believe Max's claims about the scumteam, and I want to vote out Evil, not Neutral.

I know you've said this previously but I find this opinion bizarre.

Given how B12 treats survivors he could probably claim survivor and live but he hasn't done that, probably because he's not a third party.

[4maskwolf]

NQT: I was reading through Supernatural 10 at the time and it felt like you were a lot more involved in the scumhunting side in that game then you were in this game. Like, you did mechanics stuff because you're, y'know, you, but it felt like you came into this game swinging trying to figure out mechanics stuff moreso than that game (despite the fact that two people immediately soft roleclaimed in that game).

It was also, admittedly, based on some exhausted misreadings of your posts this game, your "is Tric an SK" comment to me somehow didn't process properly until I read it just now (you didn't believe Tric was a wolf and so were challenging me on the matter) so I read it as being overly interested in third-parties when combined with the whole Lenglon thing.


I don't get Max's roleclaim. If it's true Max literally claimed the most damning part of their role rather than the parts of their role that might exonerate them in our eyes. "Ayy lmao I can get converted by the wolves/third party" isn't a ringing endorsement of leaving you alive.

[Persus13]

Okay, hopefully this post won't take more than an hour of my day. It took an hour and a half.

Random Thought 1: Whenever folks say Jack my first thought is Jack A T instead of EuchreJack, despite him not playing mafia in like 5 years.
Random Thought 2: And when I went to look up how Jack A T's username is spelled I wound up rereading the highlights of BYOR 0.
Random Thought 3: Given all the buddying going on, part of me is paranoid that webadict did the two scumteams trick again.
Random Thought 4: Its really hard to analyze meta reads when I have 0 context for them, since they're referencing games I didn't even know happened.

I'm trying to understand Max's posts since he's the vote leader at present, but I just feel confused. Like:

I think Jack is incredibly readable, but look, if this is something we're just going to have to push past, I'll vote him if you want, okay? At some point you people are going to have to accept that I'll vote for anyone because I am not on a scumteam.

I'm still really confused by what readable means in this sentence.

They're playing very stream of consciousness right now. They're not really playing like they have a grand plan and are pretty flaily. I guess I could see that as scum, but if that's the case his partners must be Egan or Vector or someone less active like that.

Knightwing:

Knightwing from the future here, it seems like I’m being suspected by Max and Persus? Being on my phone in class is stressful, so I’m just going to say this.

You’re wrong.

Persus, You said why I voted 4Mask? I don’t remember. But I don’t trust them, and I have a bad feeling about them. But I’m quickly getting suspicious of Max.

You voted 4maskwolf in your first post of the game, so it was clearly random. Do you mind elaborating why you don't trust them now or is it just a gut feeling?

This was a good post and felt like panicked town worried about being voted than anything else. Lenglon gave you some good advice.. You had a vote on you, and in a 13 player game that's basically nothing. 3 or more is really when you should feel concerned. Unvote.

Ooo, my bad. I meant Jack, not Max.

For the post I just quoted?

ToonyMan:


Hector13:
You definitely feel like you're coasting. Which might be the pot calling the kettle black here since I haven't been super active either, but some of your reads felt like copying other people rather than your own thoughts.

EuchreJack is… probably town? I mean, town!EJ usually goes through phases of rampant paranoia which I haven’t seen, particularly when people pressure him, but he’s making an effort even if that effort is a little bit weird at times (voting 4mask to see what happens, townreading Max as he agrees with Max) but it feels like he’s hitting the right notes for the most part. I find it hard to believe the change in mentality could be solely down to being coached in scumchat, particularly with the frequency of his posts, but I’ll keep that in my back pocket for the time being, just in case.

So I assume scum EJ doesn't have paranoia phases?

4mask is 4mask!4mask. He didn’t start the game with his usual scattershot voting, but he’s being playful, if not particularly forthright in pushing people, and is using other people’s reads on Tric to scumread Tric, which I don’t like. Something to keep an eye on.

This feels like you're just aping Toony here on a statement he later retracted. Do you have some further thoughts on this now?

Egan:

I also believe that Max is acting as his scumself. I think I'd characterize it as being ornery. Sure he's usually antisocial but there's a certain kind of antisocial here.


Unrelatedly it's kinda stupid that I can get townread by half the players by showing up and being rude. I guess it's consistent enough?
I've not gone a certain run of games being town and my run of scum before that was all pretty nonstandard stuff so I dunno what my play as Evil would be here either.

Do you have a particular favorite town and scum game you've played?

Vector:

Persus13, what do you think of the day's events so far? In particular, what are your reads?

Chaotic D1 fare that somehow has to be the basis for the rest of the game. My reads so far are that the weird Tric and Max thing feels like town on town. Toony is playing well, and I don't think he'd be staking his positions out as much on other people being town and scum if he were scum. But some of his takes feel weirdly overconfident to me. Jim and Knightwing both feel fairly town at present. I'm most suspicious of hector at present for some oddities that stood out to me. You I need more posts to get an impression of, same with Egan.

I mentioned to Lenglon awhile back that Tric, 4mask and NQT are my picks for scum, but after the past two days I'm not sure anymore.
Tric is playing extremely weird. Their interactions with 4mask have been super weird as Toony keeps pointing out, but they feel like a townie with tunnel vision rn rather than scum.
NQT doing vote analysis is more of what I'm used to from NQT D1 and so I'm a bit more comfortable with their play. I still have a few lingering suspicions but right now I don't think they're scum.
4maskwolf has been accused of active lurking and I guess I see it, but folks like hector feel more guilty of that to me.

TricMagic:

nin. Max doesn't really have anything to get out of this lynch, so they spill something false and then retire for the day to stop giving info. If they survive, great! If they don't, they've no longer given any info on their teammates we could get out of them.

And its also classic town lynch play. SO yeah sure it can be aped by scum player hoping not to get lynched, but its still classic dead town behavior.

[Persus13]

Shoot I left in the Toony header when what was going to be there wound up being this post:

@Max:
Why are you claiming? You should have at least not mentioned the being recruited part. You also phrased it like you expect to die today.

All right, I'm not planning to hang around the rest of the day, so I guess I might as well spill what I know. It's not much, but it might be helpful still.

Vote Count
------------------------
Maximum Spin - 5 - notquitethere*, TricMagic*, Knightwing64*, hector13*, Egan_BW*,

If I logged off for the day with 5 votes on me I'd sure feel I was going to die and start spilling the beans.

Stream of consciousness post incoming.

[hector13]

If I had to take a wild guess here and now? I'd guess three witches, one good one neutral one evil, some kind of witch hunter that wants to find witches instead of evils, some kind of non-monster SK, and three monster-themed mafia. I think from Web's perspective and game balance I was treated as a town miller instead of as a 3p. But it's a D1 in a 13 player Web game, I don't think speculating on the setup composition is going to be productive, and I'm unconcerned with it when I'm attempting to figure people out right now. I'll probably be more interested in this topic on later days, just not now.

Well that’s the thing though, is you seem to think Max is a neutral survivor so it would make sense for me to question.your thoughts on the distribution, to see how he might fit in to that.

‘cause I don’t rightly understand the jump to immediately suspecting Max of being a survivor instead of just trying to retcon his reasons for a vote to make it seem a bit more reasonable, particularly in the face of tying up his wagon with NQT’s. He could do that as scum or town, really, so why the jump to survivor?

[Persus13]

I don't get Max's roleclaim. If it's true Max literally claimed the most damning part of their role rather than the parts of their role that might exonerate them in our eyes. "Ayy lmao I can get converted by the wolves/third party" isn't a ringing endorsement of leaving you alive.

The "effectively recruited" me line seems weird to me. How are you effectively recruited? Someone takes your role or tells you what to do?

[Persus13]

If I had to take a wild guess here and now? I'd guess three witches, one good one neutral one evil, some kind of witch hunter that wants to find witches instead of evils, some kind of non-monster SK, and three monster-themed mafia. I think from Web's perspective and game balance I was treated as a town miller instead of as a 3p. But it's a D1 in a 13 player Web game, I don't think speculating on the setup composition is going to be productive, and I'm unconcerned with it when I'm attempting to figure people out right now. I'll probably be more interested in this topic on later days, just not now.

This sounds like my Good, Bad, and the Ugly Mafia game i ran with extra steps.

[Lenglon]

If I had to take a wild guess here and now? I'd guess three witches, one good one neutral one evil, some kind of witch hunter that wants to find witches instead of evils, some kind of non-monster SK, and three monster-themed mafia. I think from Web's perspective and game balance I was treated as a town miller instead of as a 3p. But it's a D1 in a 13 player Web game, I don't think speculating on the setup composition is going to be productive, and I'm unconcerned with it when I'm attempting to figure people out right now. I'll probably be more interested in this topic on later days, just not now.

Well that’s the thing though, is you seem to think Max is a neutral survivor so it would make sense for me to question.your thoughts on the distribution, to see how he might fit in to that.

‘cause I don’t rightly understand the jump to immediately suspecting Max of being a survivor instead of just trying to retcon his reasons for a vote to make it seem a bit more reasonable, particularly in the face of tying up his wagon with NQT’s. He could do that as scum or town, really, so why the jump to survivor?

Hector: I was mentally flip-flopping between Max as survivor or SK, but didn't see any reasonable way for him to be town or scum. Not scumhunting so not town, but also not teaming, generally seemed unsure / unstable, and his behavior really made me think he was afraid of being nightkilled. With his claim I concluded that he's almost certainly survivor, which to be fair had already been my top suspicion before, it mostly helped me worry less about Max as SK.

[Lenglon]

Also critical in my judgement is that Max, like me, has claimed monster abilities and so, like me, I would expect Max to be non-Good. Toss in the blatent votes to protect himself instead of find evil, and non-Good Max is pretty much a given IMO.

[hector13]

@Persus, another person making it hard for me to clip quotes on my phone

I get the coasting thing, ‘cause I am, for the various reasons I think I outlined at the top of my reads list.

As fer 4mask, it was this post I was referring to with the sheeping thing. He also seems to have spent a lot of time reading games other than this one to get a handle on Tric, which is an awful lot of effort for very little payoff (the possibility of solving one slot on D1 in a 13 player game). I could argue that makes it look like he’s making an effort when he really isn’t, but I’d rather have a Max elimination at this time.

Lenglon favouring NQT over 4mask also raised a point against 4mask, namely that 4mask hasn’t voted after 2 early RVS efforts, and a vote on Tric two posts after the one I linked, at that point based on sheeping and a bizarro scumtell in the post between the vote and the linked one. I’m used to seeing 4mask throw his vote around like it’s going out of fashion. I will concede I’ve not played a game with him for a while, but it doesn’t sit well.

Continuing on from something I said earlier, that the town’s weapon against hostile parties is voting them out, obviously that means a townie’s vote is important. Max thus delegating his vote to someone else does not reflect well on him, and 4mask parking their vote on Tric for sheepy/bizarre reasons while they go out of thread to figure them out is also a bit of a weird one.

Anyway… that’s another thing that got away from me heh.

As for EJ, I think I said at the end of my read in him that I could be wrong, I’m just kind of unwilling to scumread someone (on D1) for making a good effort to push the game forward, even if it’s against their meta a little bit. He might very well have phases of paranoia as scum - I’ve been playing mafia for years and I get waves like that as both alignments - but I would probably expect that to manifest itself in the scum thread if he has one available rather than the game thread. I’m not sure how easy it would be to fake paranoia realistically.

Anyway, even thinking of it like that, there are other people I would prefer to see flip instead of EJ right now. I think in the views of other people, you and I are probably on that list :p

Also, you seem to have set aside a part for Toony in that big post, but there’s nothing in it.

[EuchreJack]

If I had to take a wild guess here and now? I'd guess three witches, one good one neutral one evil, some kind of witch hunter that wants to find witches instead of evils, some kind of non-monster SK, and three monster-themed mafia. I think from Web's perspective and game balance I was treated as a town miller instead of as a 3p. But it's a D1 in a 13 player Web game, I don't think speculating on the setup composition is going to be productive, and I'm unconcerned with it when I'm attempting to figure people out right now. I'll probably be more interested in this topic on later days, just not now.

Well that’s the thing though, is you seem to think Max is a neutral survivor so it would make sense for me to question.your thoughts on the distribution, to see how he might fit in to that.

‘cause I don’t rightly understand the jump to immediately suspecting Max of being a survivor instead of just trying to retcon his reasons for a vote to make it seem a bit more reasonable, particularly in the face of tying up his wagon with NQT’s. He could do that as scum or town, really, so why the jump to survivor?

Hector: I was mentally flip-flopping between Max as survivor or SK, but didn't see any reasonable way for him to be town or scum. Not scumhunting so not town, but also not teaming, generally seemed unsure / unstable, and his behavior really made me think he was afraid of being nightkilled. With his claim I concluded that he's almost certainly survivor, which to be fair had already been my top suspicion before, it mostly helped me worry less about Max as SK.

FYI Max plays like that regardless of alignment on Day 1. Max is a loner.  So Max is almost certainly either town or mafia. My gut is Town.
Admittedly, I have to reread Max's claim, because "will be recruited into scumteam" is a valid launch candidate.

[EuchreJack]

Unvote since I'm feeling better about NQT.

[EuchreJack]

PFP

I need to go to bed so I can't address everything right now. I'm posting from phone so it's hard for me to quote.

1. I made an inconsistent statement about 4mask earlier where I said I didn't like them using other people's views as their own to vote Tric. That isn't true I must have misremembered then. Reply #275.
2. I've been flipflopping on Tric because I couldn't see him as being mafia with anyone, which I want to attribute to 4mask's play.
3. Tric has called me Evil every time I get aggressive with 4mask and accuse 4mask. It's happened twice now. Reply #330 #379. Even 4mask has mentioned it.
4. Here is my favourite part. I was confused why Tric was still going after Jack and not trying to save himself more by making up a reason to vote 4mask back when Tric and 4mask were leading wagons, this could very well be because Tric does not want to vote 4mask. Reply #274.

Just outright ignore the elephant I revealed why don't you? Why are you backing off so easily, is it cause you no longer have a need to pressure me?

I was falling asleep in bed. I want to respond to 4mask as well when I can.

What is saying you're a Warden mean? Do you plan on saying more or are you just saying that to sound authorative? Why are you defending 4mask so hard, but didn't have them on your townread list?

I'm all for Max too, I don't see the Jack/Max/Toony team being wrong right now.

You are at least 80% wrong since I'm town. Jack is town. And Max is probably town.

Isn't it funny how your "Boom these are my 3 scumreads" at the start of game hasn't evolved at all? It's like you have a set plan you're following for the day.

Oh and vote Toonyman for Power Role Hunting. We know probably too much about Tric already, so STFU!

[EuchreJack]

I also find it suspicious that I'm like 88% sure that Tric is Town, yet Toonyman is relentlessly scumreading Tric.
I was willing to forgive it as a Famous town!Toony gambit, until this latest investigation by Toonyman.