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[dgr11897]

While there are definitely scenarios that can be constructed where Storm Cell is better, I'd agree that in most cases UB is better due to giving no time to react.
Mind you, I kinda feel like all three board wipes (these two and Meteor) are too powerful. Their low cost (often negative, in Meteor Shower's case) makes going wide with low-heart creatures completely untenable. If it were up to me, all of them would cost an extra star, and UB would only do 3 damage.
But it isn't up to me, and it is possible to devise workarounds. If Supernerd is happy with the cards as they are, so be it.
That said, I don't think Supernerd should be locked out of changing cards if they want to- balancing cards is always going to be a challenge, and there should be opportunities to correct mistakes.

I agree about most of these being too powerful. But I will note that initially we didn't have a star gain card, and we still struggle with initial star gain due to our main and most powerful methods of gaining stars requiring stars to be used. So in the first turn Meteor Shower was balanced by the fact that it was a literal flip of the coin whether you'd even be able to use it.

I would be agreeable to board wipes getting a bit of a rework. Meteor shower wasn't even supposed to be a board wipe I think, but rather deal a static amount of damage randomly distributed across enemies in addition to its star gain effect. In other words, if that version had went through it'd be possible for Meteor shower to completely miss a card or deal very little damage to big and important cards, and the more cards there were the more spread out its damage would be due to simple chance. But that's not the version that got made so whatever.

[Supernerd]

Storm cell required a nerf because it could be used to wipe the opponent's board while leaving your own board untouched by actively having a plan to utilize face-down cards. By giving it the delay, it permits your opponent to do something with their own cards before they are wiped and then faced with any number of face-down stuff. Meanwhile unintentional bombardment would hurt yourself just as much as your opponent.

If you personally think that a card seems overpowered, then you can personally punish it very harshly by making new cards with them in mind.

I do not see a need to change things at this particular moment.

[notquitethere]

I agree Bombardment is powerful (though also painful for the player), but I agree also with this sentiment:

If you personally think that a card seems overpowered, then you can personally punish it very harshly by making new cards with them in mind.

I like this as a self-balancing aspect of the Arms Race format: if one person creates something that's a massive pain... then it's straightforward to design a card that makes playing it a weakness. I'm sure you can imagine a lot of ways to punish bombardment. This way the meta is constantly shifting, as intended.

[Failbird105]

Yeah, I think that makes sense.

So essentially the reason why only Storm Cell was nerfed of the two is that it's essentially a "deal 4 damage to all enemy cards", whereas Bombardment doesn't have any clause that allows its player to reasonably block the damage without exceptionally expensive outside cards.

[dgr11897]

Yeah, I think that makes sense.

So essentially the reason why only Storm Cell was nerfed of the two is that it's essentially a "deal 4 damage to all enemy cards", whereas Bombardment doesn't have any clause that allows its player to reasonably block the damage without exceptionally expensive outside cards.

You could say the same about flipping cards though. You'd either have to play a bunch of quickplay cardflip effect, have cards that can flip themselves or be played facedown, or take at least a turn winding up and flipping all your stuff facedown.

So it'd be star intensive or obvious.

My bigger gripe is honestly just that it can nuke Firebase. Which makes it hard to play firebase. Meanwhile pacifist gun waifu, which is Firebase's rough equivalent in terms of overall role, costs less and somehow survives the effect. With the admittedly notable downside of being unable to eliminate other cards directly, but when it can survive the boardwipe which just about nothing else can that feels less than relevant.

[Failbird105]

You could say the same about flipping cards though. You'd either have to play a bunch of quickplay cardflip effect, have cards that can flip themselves or be played facedown, or take at least a turn winding up and flipping all your stuff facedown.

I mean sure it does(probably) take a turn flipping all of your cards face down, preventing you from doing anything else. But it'd take that plus stars to instead make all of said cards not take the damage. As for the firebase v PGW comparison, I mean, they really... aren't equivalent in role. PGW is only a face nuker. If you have even a single card that can survive the damage of the Bombardment by even one point without a 'no defending' clause she literally can't touch you for at least one more turn.

Firebase, while it may not survive the blast of Bombardment, will kill literally anything in the game thus far, including the PGW, and can deal an entire 3rd or more of the opponents Hearts directly to their face if they're undefended. It can do what the PGW can do only slightly worse, while also not having her core weakness, and can essentially allow you to cast a very solid damage spell once per turn without taking up a card slot.

[TricMagic]

I do wonder what exactly goes on in thread two. Also, do you have a win condition?

[Failbird105]

I do wonder what exactly goes on in thread two. Also, do you have a win condition?

Part of it is discussing new cards. Part of it is that I keep track of my hand in there, for potential advice.

[TricMagic]

First case of simultaneous activations. So proud.

It enters play when the old one leaves, so we got a case where I can deal damage even through it, hopefully.

Bit sleepy, so thinking.. Firebase pays for it's secondary shot, and bombardment clears the field. Since nothing remains to target but a player... You pay the cost to activate the effect again, so it triggers after bombardment clears the field, hopefully.


On another note, hat happens if bombardment is destroyed before the effect finishes? Cause if that's the case~

[Failbird105]

Basically, we need to know whether or not the Bombardment being played on the Sweeper's death will destroy the Firebase before it can use its Star-costing ability.

[Stirk]

I would like to register a formal complaint to the GM. Though it might stem more from my own misunderstanding of how each card works.

These cards have the same general board wipe effect. Except. One of them is significantly weaker than the other.
Storm cell has a delay and because of how it's worded, reducing max hearts rather than dealing damage, I think it would be fair to rule that if you don't die to storm cell you don't lose any hearts. Storm cell also cannot hurt face down cards, which the delay gives the enemy a chance to exploit. Why? Because it doesn't say that "All cards permanently have their max hearts reduced by four" but rather "Reduce the max health of all Face Up cards by four". Naglfar, which has similarly ambiguous wording around how long its effect lasts, only has said effect last a single turn. Both Naglfar and Storm Cell could feasibly have their effects be permanent, or in Naglfar's case last as long as the card is on the field, but instead Naglfar's effect only lasts for one turn.This means that, as far as I know, the reduction isn't permanent but rather temporary and perhaps even instant.

Unintentional bombardment is a 0 cost board wipe that will kill just about any 0 or even 1 or more star cost card on the field, with little to no chance to counter. Actions wise, it's a bit busted. You can't meaningfully counter it besides somehow keeping it out of their hand, keeping them from playing it, or setting up a card specifically to deal with it. Any counter to it is likely to have a star cost while it has none. It doesn't have the delay and all or nothing nature of Storm Cell, it doesn't have the randomness or cost of Meteor shower, it's a card that gets played and instantly wipes the board of pretty much everything.

This just feels Off to me. Especially since no cards shown besides Olden Plains Windmill and Pacifist Gun Waifu have enough health to survive the attack. Olden Plains Windmill is another thing I have a gripe with since it lacks the one feature it was built to have because tric couldn't decide on a numerical value for that feature and so left it out of the description and put it in metadata for the GM to decide. Which resulted in it being utterly useless outside of niche interactions.

I would like to explicitly state that I don't believe either of these are due to any malice from any parties. Just simple mistakes like everyone make sometimes. Or they could just be me seeing something where there isn't anything, in which case I would like an explanation for how exactly these two cards are equal.

>Make two overpowered board sweeps
>Enemy makes one

"WAAAAAAAAAH GM THE ENEMY MADE AN OP CARD PLEASE NERF!!!"

[Failbird105]

>Make two overpowered board sweeps
>Enemy makes one

"WAAAAAAAAAH GM THE ENEMY MADE AN OP CARD PLEASE NERF!!!"

Eh, Meteor Shower I would have considered calling out, since while yes it does deal damage to their own cards I feel like they'd honestly benefit more from it destroying some cards than not. Storm Cell though? That one's perfectly fine, we were just completely unprepared for it. And had also made a deck that was focused on very wide boards that could be wiped very easily.

[NUKE9.13]

I do wonder what exactly goes on in thread two.

One thing that took up some amount of posts was that me and Notquitethere had a test match, giving me some hands-on experience (useful, since it made me realise some key things I'd overlooked) and experimenting with some mockup cards to see if a particular strategy was viable.

[Shadowclaw777]

What’s the difference between a Designed Price Card and an Extra Card Design?, is there a difference between prize cards and normal cards, such as having few to one copies of it it in a deck or something like that? Does a designed price card take your design for the turn?

Also I believe Team 2 has an additional player compared to the other, possibly meaning there might be an extra player and there might be more card designs than the opposing side. Hopefully this is compensated for though? 

[Failbird105]

From what's been said, the difference is that only you get the Prize card, not the rest of your team. That's why 'Extra Card Design' costs more. Also I think you might only get a single copy of the Prize Card as well.