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[Jim Groovester]

You present a compelling counterargument.

[hector13]

*sigh*

From your interactions I s’pose we can make some assumptions:

Assumption 1: Max gifted a powerful role to Jim.

Assumption 2: This role is not good for us if in hostile hands.

Assumption 3: Max will gift again, possibly outwith his control?

Does that about sum it up?

[Maximum Spin]

*sigh*

From your interactions I s’pose we can make some assumptions:

Assumption 1: Max gifted a powerful role to Jim.

Assumption 2: This role is not good for us if in hostile hands.

Assumption 3: Max will gift again, possibly outwith his control?

Does that about sum it up?

Yes, detective.
And don't worry: even if it wasn't possibly MYLO, lynching me wouldn't even help.

This ability, while hilarious, has the potential to seriously mess up the game, hence my early solicitude for finding out what it had done.

[hector13]

Alright then. *more sighs*

I think it’s fair to say that we currently have a majority willing to eliminate NJW, and we have plenty of time to discuss the merits of whether to do that or no lynch.

I’d also like to give NJW an opportunity to dig a deeper hole defend themselves, so yeah.

I can put on the record I’d prefer to eliminate NJW over nobody. Even if there are two, I guess reducing their chances of getting Max’s gift is a good idea.

[ToonyMan]

Does anybody want to defend NJW? Knightwing?

[NJW2000]

I guess this is the point where I offer some kind of defence.

Well, I had weird early suspicions of FoU, but, unlike most people here, actually presented a case I was voting him on, and a pretty reasonable one: useless early posts followed by attempts to defend himself from pressure in an inconsistent and unreasonable manner.

Toony simply stated he agreed with my case. Other people voting FoU did even less.

This may be WIFOM, but this is also not my scum game. I push either things I think I can get away with pushing, but I don’t control the lynch from the get-go or even genuinely try to, unless I’m saving a partner.

I’m not particularly happy with my play today, and I can see why people would be inclined to Elim me. I’d say most other people have given a pretty mediocre showing too, though, so this would be a little frustrating.

I’ll take a look at the game again in a while, but busy today. Will post whatever insights I have.

[NJW2000]

Reading through, I genuinely don’t see anyone else pushing the game along. I have almost no idea how to read if people just pick over the night, speculate about third parties, and agree with the consensus. I know we found out we were playing a non-procedurally generated game, but yikes.

I had to be the one calling out KW and tric for weird plays, just to check if there was anything dubious other than the obvious “that’s just them”. That’s not something people usually struggle with.

Hector has FELT townie to me despite FoU’s suicidal tendencies and some dubious third party speculations because they’re actually doing a bit of playing, even if it was defending FoU and hard-focusing on me. And I guess I’m not getting them elim’d today, or at all, so I’ll look elsewhere.

Toonyman probably town due to convert, suspect KW town due to claim, so looking at Jim and Max. Jim’s claim feels astonishingly audacious for scum… Max could be giving monkey’s paws though.

Jim: is whatever Max have you necessarily town sided if given to town?

[ToonyMan]

Do you think Jim is more likely to have killed Tric than Hector then?

[Jim Groovester]

It is good for the team it is given to but much more useful for the scum team than town.

[Maximum Spin]

Jim: is whatever Max have you necessarily town sided if given to town?

It certainly is, but since I can't control it and gained the ability to give the gifts randomly anyway, I admit it doesn't say much about my alignment.

Given the following things I have stated openly:

Because role flips are the single greatest information source we have, closely followed by player behavior in thread.

Well, all right. My flip will be completely fake. That is to say, completely random.

The question is how risky is it to no lynch? Even though everybody has a role they all seem to be monkey's paw roles of dubious utility and value. If it were a BYOR, absolutely no way would I go for a no lynch, but it feeeeeeels like less of a risk this game.

Well, I might as well be open about this: my role leads me strongly to prefer getting on with things. It didn't break the game today, but it might tomorrow. Like, for example, what if NJW2000 got what you got? Well, that could still happen and there's nothing anyone can do about it yet. For all I know, it could easily get worse than that.

And don't worry: even if it wasn't possibly MYLO, lynching me wouldn't even help.

I can't help but think you're intentionally trying to pick the least town-beneficial target possible. Especially after you've already argued that the last player you had lynched might have been secret mafia who flipped falsely.

[hector13]

Yeah it kinda feels you’re just looking for ways out and hoping to get traction.

You tried to tenuously link FoU and I with the “10-4” argument on D1, and then said that despite that I had a “town energy”. You then seemed to double down on the tenuous link between myself and FoU by suggesting that because Max had admitted to having a fake flip that FoU would have one too, and when people said that argument was bad kinda moved back to seeing me as town, but simultaneously seem to think I’m the best elimination if I’m reading that correctly (that you’re not going to be able to get me eliminated) which is a bit confusing.

[NJW2000]

@Max: I don't particularly think I'll get to choose the elimination today, or even the later days if I flip, so in any case it's fairly academic.

Also eliminating you wouldn't hurt as much as losing a power role, either  , if you can't stop the power.
Though I'm mostly stating that because it's funny.
Do you actually think you might be eliminated today?

Do you think Jim is more likely to have killed Tric than Hector then?

Well, I'm uncertain.

I did find it hard to interpret Hector's and FoU's behaviour yesterday - the last time I saw a town player so unwilling to save themselves, it was Roden failing to push the elim onto Toony in one of the MVMs, under a great deal more duress due to a screwup of my own. Nonetheless, hector pings me as town, and nobody else seems at all interested in voting him... people's opinions seem to have changed after the hard defence of FoU.

I'm trying to work out if Jim could be scum with an infect based on me, and lying about the 75% befriend? This seems like a risky gambit, as he'd get away with it at most once before people call bullshit... might have to be done with a partner? I don't think Jim's role clears him.

It is good for the team it is given to but much more useful for the scum team than town.

Thanks.

Yeah it kinda feels you’re just looking for ways out and hoping to get traction.

You tried to tenuously link FoU and I with the “10-4” argument on D1, and then said that despite that I had a “town energy”. You then seemed to double down on the tenuous link between myself and FoU by suggesting that because Max had admitted to having a fake flip that FoU would have one too, and when people said that argument was bad kinda moved back to seeing me as town, but simultaneously seem to think I’m the best elimination if I’m reading that correctly (that you’re not going to be able to get me eliminated) which is a bit confusing.

I'd rather not die, yeah, it wouldn't help town if I did. But I'm just giving my thoughts on the game, in case it helps people, there doesn't seem to be any appetite for a different elim. If anything, stating my thought processes might show that I'm town so we can no-lynch, but even that looks pretty unlikely. I don't think town are going to find scum today.

I'm flip-flopping because I genuinely don't know who's town or who's scum. Jim, Toony and Max have not come under any pressure, so I'm practically unable to get any kind of read on them. I'm trying to find something, but it's very difficult, because people are barely playing. You vibe as town, but the interpretation that makes most intellectual sense has you as scum, and I don't know what to trust.

This is exactly like the thing with FoU yesterday. I'm like 55% sure he was actually town at the moment, in which case people are doing exactly the same stuff as D1: not presenting cases, or pressuring anyone but the likeliest elimination. If he was town, I f'd up, but at least I did something.

[ToonyMan]

To put words in a mafia!NJW's mouth: I think in that scenario mafia!NJW wanted to go after me or Max D2, however we're the two players with the clearest outs as we're the least likely to have killed Tric. This leaves NJW with Hector, Knightwing, and Jim as the possible Tric killer. First he tries to see if Knightwing is the killer mechanically, but it doesn't check out. Second he believes Hector was working with FoU in a mind-numbing theory. Third now it's Jim and Max maybe working together or maybe it's Max giving Jim a monkey's paw like item.

I think NJW going after Jim makes the most amount of sense here. They could try to argue Hector or Knightwing too, but I haven't been convinced by either case.

[ToonyMan]

I'm flip-flopping because I genuinely don't know who's town or who's scum. Jim, Toony and Max have not come under any pressure, so I'm practically unable to get any kind of read on them. I'm trying to find something, but it's very difficult, because people are barely playing. You vibe as town, but the interpretation that makes most intellectual sense has you as scum, and I don't know what to trust.

This is exactly like the thing with FoU yesterday. I'm like 55% sure he was actually town at the moment, in which case people are doing exactly the same stuff as D1: not presenting cases, or pressuring anyone but the likeliest elimination. If he was town, I f'd up, but at least I did something.

How does a no-lynch sound for today?

[NJW2000]

Right now the alternative appears to be me dying. I'd have to think about this, but I'm pretty sure a no-elim would be better, unless my elim is just something that has to be got out of the way.