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[TricMagic]

Probably a bit late in the day to be posting, but eh. Sillyness.

[FallacyofUrist]

NJW2000 is weaker than he has any right to be.

NJW2000 displays strong cohesion and investigation, then breaks down the moment he tries to justify a case on me.

Let's make a comparison.

Tric: Question for you here. Want this very explicitly answered.

Huh. No point putting this off, I guess.

TricMagic.

There's something very dubious going on here. Players do not stick around once their wincon is reached. They leave the game. You can check this in the OP, and with the mod.

You're lying to us.

Why?

Versus!

The case I'm voting FoU on is:

Basically uninteresting first few posts, featuring stuff like a meaningless and abandoned prod at Knightwing, stupid questions, actual nothing, a bunch of mostly uncontested townreads, etc. Nearly activelurking in quite a spicy early D1.

Dubious posts here and here. In these, FoU claims we were in RVS still, threatens to vote players retaliatively for poor justification (cognitive dissonance here?), or for presenting evidence on them without voting (ditto?). It basically looks like attempts to drive off pressure.

The Max vote is... meta-based. Also not based on something I actually think is true of Max, but people's impressions differ, so NAI.

Also for me, a bit of POE, I guess... Mostly sure of Jim and Knightwing, and don't want to elim Hector just yet because some stuff he said has town energy. Possibly Max and Toony are scum wagoning on some weird garden path I've wandered down, but that would probably look as bad for them as for me, if not worse?

And maybe, just maybe, FoU's first post was a bit odd.

Ninja: Fallacy now going to do some scumhunting, apparently. I'm all ears.

Read the posts NJW quoted through links. The first ones fit the first hours of the game well enough - there's usually some humor before things get serious. I'm not accepting that as a scum tell. The followups don't seem to logically lead to the conclusions NJW is drawing.

But most importantly, look at the comparative attitudes shown. The aggression shown in the first vote versus the conspiracy-theorizing in the second.

Don't see my unvote as an act of mercy. I still extremely want to vote you today Fallacy for being scummy. I'm mainly unvoting so I can read the thread and get a word in without quicky mcgee dropping hammer.

I'll gladly hammer you with confidence.

What is actually scummy about me? My sense of humor? The set of posts I already justified by noting that it was 1 AM at the time and I was doing preliminary musing? You have no case. I don't even mean a weak case, you literally have no case.

FoU, full role-claim if you haven't yet.

No. It's not even relevant right now. I should have my night action confirmed Day 2.

You have nothing.

[FallacyofUrist]

But most importantly, look at the comparative attitudes shown. The aggression shown in the first vote versus the conspiracy-theorizing in the second.

Well, conspiracy theorizing is part of it, but the stronger issue is the comparative lack of energy and the unsureness projected. I don't understand how someone capable of putting forth the first attack is stuck doing this as the second one, unless they're scum trying to force an execution.

[ToonyMan]

You won't have a night action to confirm when you're dead.

Full

claim

FoU

[Jim Groovester]

Basically uninteresting first few posts, featuring stuff like a meaningless and abandoned prod at Knightwing, stupid questions, actual nothing, a bunch of mostly uncontested townreads, etc. Nearly activelurking in quite a spicy early D1.

Dubious posts here and here. In these, FoU claims we were in RVS still, threatens to vote players retaliatively for poor justification (cognitive dissonance here?), or for presenting evidence on them without voting (ditto?). It basically looks like attempts to drive off pressure.

FallacyofUrist is a goofball so him not having a conventionally strong playstyle doesn't condemn him from my perspective.

I agree with you about him making those dubious posts you highlight as attempts to drive off pressure, but I don't really see that as something scummy. I recall a recent game where a player accused me of being scummy because I wasn't even trying to get shot, like that was something I was supposed to do as town. This reminds me a bit of that situation.

Also for me, a bit of POE, I guess... Mostly sure of Jim and Knightwing, and don't want to elim Hector just yet because some stuff he said has town energy. Possibly Max and Toony are scum wagoning on some weird garden path I've wandered down, but that would probably look as bad for them as for me, if not worse?

Fair enough on him being part of your POE. This is actually the point I find most convincing.

First of all, I don't think Maximum Spin makes this vote as town. 'keep my opinions to myself' and 'my nature is to be bold' seem mutually exclusive, frankly speaking. This just doesn't fit Spin's normal behavior. Spin typically hangs back Day 1 - and here he is making a near lethal play based on gut feeling. That isn't a pressure vote, that's scum saying 'jump this guy already, you know you want to'.

Aside from that point, now that I'm back home, from work as mentioned earlier, I can act on the methodologies I described last night. That is to say, who's voting me for the laziest and least justified reasons.

I really don't like this vote. That you drop it later makes me like it even less.

As much as my initial vote was on him, I don't believe Maximum Spin is scum - unvote.

why did you fucking cast it then you fucking goofball

you have the opportunity and ability to do sensible things so why arent you you fucking goofball

I was very tempted to hammer you for your Maximum Spin vote since it looked like a do nothing about to die scum protest but I decided to see if you'd deliver something that might change my mind. I'm not sure I made the right decision.



Not done yet.

[TricMagic]

Fal, mechanically solving your 'innocence' is just stalling. If I'm to be converted to town, you'd be relying on me and toony in the first place to clear your innocence. And if toony is town, where does your suspicion fall?

[FallacyofUrist]

But somehow, ToonyMan's behavior is even weaker, even scummier.

I meant it when I said he has nothing.

... This is the most unreasoned and most indecisive flip flopping I have seen in a while.

I believe I've already documented the flip-flopping, but frankly, that's not even the main reason for my vote. Just a supporting factor.

I can't believe I agree with a D1 NJW case.

FallacyofUrist. I think FoU is up to no good and do like NJW more currently.

Toony just... doesn't post anything to go along with this. I am, somehow, 'up to no good', without any supporting documentation.

Is he doing it because he agrees with NJW? If so, he certainly doesn't bother to say it.

What about the FoU thing is odd though? I might not be seeing anything due to being quite distracted this day, but it didn’t raise any red flags.

FoU has two sentences back-to-back, both questions, that involve a number. First 10 and then 4.

The way FoU asks these questions is unnatural and warrants suspicion.

To see their reaction? Why else would I do it?

You could argue such odd phrases are signaling. It lines up too well, your playful prodding of Hector looks like signaling. I don't believe you buddying up with Hector makes Hector mafia, but I don't like your behavior there.

I want to vote you or NJW today.

Prior to the vote post, we get these feeble attempts at justification. I am, apparently, acting suspicious. I might be signaling. Still can't make up his mind about NJW.

And then after the vote, nothing more until we get the unvote, and the 'still willing to vote NJW', why he says that detail in particular, I can't fathom.

You won't have a night action to confirm when you're dead.

Full

claim

FoU

Nah.

You're assuming I'll be dead, which I won't be. I have full confidence in my ability to get you executed. You have nothing.

I will full claim Day 2.

Toony is acting like he has a case, when in truth either he doesn't, or he's copying NJW's case without saying he's copying NJW's case and trying to look like he considers him a possible scum target without ever justifying that.

It is so shifty.

Fal, mechanically solving your 'innocence' is just stalling. If I'm to be converted to town, you'd be relying on me and toony in the first place to clear your innocence. And if toony is town, where does your suspicion fall?

I have no idea what you are talking about. Please explain further, or preferably help me get ToonyMan executed. He is not town.

[ToonyMan]

Some musing in the meantime:

One of the reasons I like NJW over FoU is because I agree with NJW's assertions that Knightwing and Jim feel town while Hector has a "town energy" to him. I can feel exactly what he means when he says that, like resonance you know? That doesn't mean we're right, but if we're having a similar mindset then maybe we're the same alignment too.

NJW also backed down when I defend Tric from him. I don't think that marks NJW as town, but it shows he's willing to believe in Tric and to some extent me and Jim since we both have ways to deal with Tric tonight.

It's less clear with Max, NJW seems to be keeping in the back of his mind that me or Max could be playing him, and that's a justifiable paranoia.

[FallacyofUrist]

Some musing in the meantime:

One of the reasons I like NJW over FoU is because I agree with NJW's assertions that Knightwing and Jim feel town while Hector has a "town energy" to him. I can feel exactly what he means when he says that, like resonance you know? That doesn't mean we're right, but if we're having a similar mindset then maybe we're the same alignment too.

I totally agree. You two have the same energy. Shifty weakness and trying to create cases that don't really exist. Scum.

[Jim Groovester]

But somehow, ToonyMan's behavior is even weaker, even scummier.

Why not NJW2000 if he's also part of the scum team? hector13 is voting NJW2000 so if you pivoted to NJW2000 your odds of getting a non-you lynch significantly improve.

Also stop ignoring my questions or I will hammer you for pissing me off.

[ToonyMan]

You won't have a night action to confirm when you're dead.

Full

claim

FoU

Nah.

Then die. I will be voting you after I'm done posting tonight.

I want to be an amicable person. I don't want to miss anything. If you have no desire to cooperate on death's door then you have something to hide and are scum. Please understand this concept.

[TricMagic]

You haven't been paying attention fal? Toony apparently has a random way to convert TP to town, apparently. I have a global attract. You do the math.

[FallacyofUrist]

You haven't been paying attention fal? Toony apparently has a random way to convert TP to town, apparently. I have a global attract. You do the math.

If I was scum and choosing between using an ability like that and the mafiakill, I would just use the mafiakill, then claim I was roleblocked the next Day. Or I would just lie about having an ability like that. It's not enough to justify not executing him.

Then die. I will be voting you after I'm done posting tonight.

I want to be an amicable person. I don't want to miss anything. If you have no desire to cooperate on death's door then you have something to hide and are scum. Please understand this concept.

Until the very last minute, votes can change. I fully believe my fullclaim will not make any difference in who votes me and who doesn't vote me. I will not claim. It benefits scum more than it does town, in this circumstance, which will be demonstrably visible once I claim it Day 2.

But somehow, ToonyMan's behavior is even weaker, even scummier.

Why not NJW2000 if he's also part of the scum team? hector13 is voting NJW2000 so if you pivoted to NJW2000 your odds of getting a non-you lynch significantly improve.

I believe ToonyMan is marginally scummier than NJW, and I'll act according to that belief. NJW has a really terrible case, and ToonyMan has no case. There's a slight improvement between 'really terrible' and 'none'.

[TricMagic]

You haven't been paying attention fal? Toony apparently has a random way to convert TP to town, apparently. I have a global attract. You do the math.

If I was scum and choosing between using an ability like that and the mafiakill, I would just use the mafiakill, then claim I was roleblocked the next Day. Or I would just lie about having an ability like that. It's not enough to justify not executing him.

Global Attract

[FallacyofUrist]

Global Attract

As long as there is any possibility the ability might fail, the scum can just claim they used it and it failed and kill instead. And there are some weird as heck abilities the generator can generate. The scum can just lie. Remember last game - Beginner BYOR 3 - where Roden and Spin just lied, Spin saying he got the message sent to Roden, and made the town go crazy about a hypothetical bus driver / mass redirector that never actually existed? Scum can do that.

I'm doubtful now that the conversion actually exists.