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[Maximum Spin]

Max, something I'd like to point out is that Knightwing took a little bit of what we said last time he was scum and applied it here: He tried to play it a bit cool by ignoring us a bit. It's a bit circumstantial, but combined with his normal tendency to not comment on the gamestate, I've got odds on scum!Knightwing at about 90-95%, so I'm in if you are. I'm not even in favor of shooting you if you're wrong.

Well, you know me well enough to know that at this point I'm committed. If I was going to change my vote I would've done it by now.

Anyway, Lidku, the main thing you needed to see in webadict's posts is that he was making points, and often good ones, he just put them in silly decoration. Meanwhile, Knightwing, regardless of whether he said it silly or serious, was saying nothing. I will give you a little benefit of the doubt here: the fact that you apparently couldn't tell what I was getting at, either, suggests that you might just not have the experience to derive the esoteric part of the argument from the part that gets said out loud, which is understandable. I still think you're just defending your scumpartner though, sorry.

Back to webadict:

Also, it's in not a Max/Toony/Web team. I'm pretty sure all three of those are Town.

You know what, I think you might just be right.

[Lidku]

I'd like to point out that flip-flopping is actually more of a Towntell than a scumtell, but the best indicator for any scum action is reasoning.

Except for the fact that your flip-flop was 3 minutes after. 3 minutes. That's not reasonable as a scumtell and the fact you were "barbarian-posting" as to not adequately explain your case in that time after, is/was suspicious.

What was my reasoning for flipping from Max to Knightwing? Calling it a flip-flop is, well, a bit overstatement, but the reasoning behind the flip-flop was solid, and it's why I think Toony and Max are Town

What reasoning? You were "barbarian-posting" and to me, nearly unintelligible in the majority of your posts. The flip-flop itself could have been you initially voting for Max, then Knightwing, to cast off suspicions that you both coordinating from a Mafia team chat.

And it's funny that you dropped your "act" after I confirmed I'd leave my vote on you. What happened to you only willing to drop it when someone specifically asked you to? Far as I can see, nobody did at all.

I still think you're just defending your scumpartner though, sorry.

In contrary to that webadict, who you likely coordinated a vote with, isn't your current scumpartner? You and webadict seem particularly defensive and agree along with the same arguments.

[Maximum Spin]

Honestly. I am going to shoot Lidku if Knightwing is scum. I am probably not the only one. I think there is zero serious chance of Knightwing not being the lynch today, and in the unlikely event that this wagon evaporates, I'd only switch to Lidku, in which case the same logic re: shooting applies in reverse.

I'm just saying, there's no shame in giving up early to save everyone a little hassle.

the fact you were "barbarian-posting" as to not adequately explain your case in that time after, is/was suspicious.

(I understood the point perfectly.)

[Lidku]

And if Knightwing IS the lynch and he comes up Town, then mind regaling me on what you'd do next? Because it'd be suspicious if Knightwing comes up as Town and then per your declaration, you come at me N1 with a "Vig" (or Mafia) kill.

[Lidku]

Knightwing: webadict has dropped his act so far, can you give a defense on your side on why you're acting so strange?

[Maximum Spin]

And if Knightwing IS the lynch and he comes up Town, then mind regaling me on what you'd do next?

I try never to commit to a specific kill if someone flips town, because that just looks like scum lining up targets. If Knightwing flips town, assume I reconsider everything and then do whatever I conclude is best.

[Lidku]

I just realized something:

( I like roleplay, it’s fun)

“You accusing me of being a traitor, Max? Well you are darn tooting wrong, and I have the badges to prove it.”


Knightwing64 shoves a Medal of Honor at Max, asserting dominance over the haters

ya ok i think knightwing took that metal from someone hes being reeeeeally suspishus

I went back in the thread and tried to find ANY reasoning on why webadict would find Knightwing suspicious during his "barbarian-posting phase". The only thing that I can connect was webadict being suspicious over Knightwing doing some italicized RP text toward Maximum Spin.

That's ONLY reasoning I could find and the reason why I'm leaving my vote on webadict. The weird coordination, in my opinion, leans "web-max" and Toon may have been just roped into going for Knightwing from web-and-max setting up that wagon. But I have some lingering suspicions on Toon still.

[webadict]

I'd like to point out that flip-flopping is actually more of a Towntell than a scumtell, but the best indicator for any scum action is reasoning.

Except for the fact that your flip-flop was 3 minutes after. 3 minutes. That's not reasonable as a scumtell and the fact you were "barbarian-posting" as to not adequately explain your case in that time after, is/was suspicious.


What reasoning? You were "barbarian-posting" and to me, nearly unintelligible in the majority of your posts. The flip-flop itself could have been you initially voting for Max, then Knightwing, to cast off suspicions that you both coordinating from a Mafia team chat.

And it's funny that you dropped your "act" after I confirmed I'd leave my vote on you. What happened to you only willing to drop it when someone specifically asked you to? Far as I can see, nobody did at all.


In contrary to that webadict, who you likely coordinated a vote with, isn't your current scumpartner? You and webadict seem particularly defensive and agree along with the same arguments.

Point 1. Yes? I don't understand. I voted Maximum Spin and then I thought I'd try to see if Max was right and push Knightwing. I haven't seen you interact with the case in a positive way yet, and Max was starting right off the bat with it, which is a much higher risk for Maximum Spin to take, since he assuredly dies if he's scum at that point. Additionally, Knightwing hasn't really contributed at all. The best case you can make is that Knightwing started off neutrally and the pressure caused him to accidentally spew scum, but you're really focused on making this Max/web/Toony team work when you have to realize that at least one of those players has to be Town by virtue of there only being one scum.

So, you can't really make that team work, and forcing it to work is not going to get results.

Point 2. Well, yes, I was barbarian posting, but I had reasoning behind my posts. One the one hand, it's Day 1 + RVS + whatever, so it doesn't really matter what you really do Today. It's, ya know, not a big deal to me. Sometimes I fuck around, sometimes I find out. It just really depends on the Lunar calendar, phase of Ceres, my dog's horoscope, etc. The only thing that matters is whether or not you see progression through the Day. ToonyMan was right to vote me because I had done nothing until that point, and then I figured I'd had enough time to make a quick chart on how I felt about everyone at the time. That's when he changed, because I now had words that can be used to track my progression through the Day.

You'll notice that I even had you as likely Town, and then swapped that, and Max as likely scum and swapped that. It happens. I mean, I'm not expected to be right 100% of the time at the beginning of the Day. That's kinda nuts if I manage that. Heck, sometimes I'm not even right on Day 3. What you can flip-flopping is what Townies do when they either want to learn more or they realize they're wrong. That's how Mafia's played!

I dropped the barbarian act because the bit was tired at that point. Nothing more, nothing less. It's also really tiring to talk like that, instead of pompously and jackassedly.

Point 3. Well, if I'm gonna be partners with anyone, I'm glad it's both Toony and Max. 3 player scumteams are OP in 9 player games.

I am going to shoot Lidku if Knightwing is scum

I fixed for me. I'll probably still shoot Lidku even if Knightwing is Town.

[webadict]

Pst, Max, we gotta kill Lidku he's onto us.

Oh shoot, this is the wrong window. Max, can you copy this into our scum Discord for Toony so he can see it? That'd be really helpful, thanks.

[Lidku]

I voted Maximum Spin and then I thought I'd try to see if Max was right and push Knightwing.

So all within a span of 3 minutes? Even before Knightwing could really credibly respond at all? Maximum Spin later on claims his reasoning for voting due to "RP" was minimal variable, but I find that claim to probably a mask. I think he went for Knightwing instead of maybe, Lenglon, was because he probably knew it'd be easier to get Knightwing out the game.

And then after that, you set up a blank "RVS" vote for Max and set-off against Knightwing in a coordinated strike. It would have been less suspicious if you at least parsed some token questions toward Max first, THEN go onto Knightwing. But due to you doing your "barbarian-posting" at the time of doing so, you could easily skirt any line of questioning toward Max.

but you're really focused on making this Max/web/Toony team work when you have to realize that at least one of those players has to be Town by virtue of there only being one scum.

Point 3. Well, if I'm gonna be partners with anyone, I'm glad it's both Toony and Max. 3 player scumteams are OP in 9 player games.

Except you know exactly what I mean. I don't understand why you're phrasing it as if I LITERALLY mean a "3 team Mafia" when I'm obviously inferring something else, really unnecessarily disingenuous.

Either Max or Toon is Town, with YOU being my common suspicion as static Mafia. At the moment from what you already can tell, I'm betting on you and Max being on a team now.

I fixed for me. I'll probably still shoot Lidku even if Knightwing is Town.

That's a really bad look if Knight flips Town on the lynch; then I die N1 and flip Town on the kill. I wonder how both you and Max will wiggle out some reasonings on D2.

[EuchreJack]

The Vest is used by the player automatically each night, and does NOT count as an action. Sorry this was unclear.

[webadict]

Why are you so sure Knightwing64 is Town here? What has he done?

[Lidku]

Why are you so sure Knightwing64 is Town here? What has he done?

I'm not sure on whether or not Knight is truly Town or Mafia. He's offline now and can't even answer my question on why he's acting the way he is. He was given ample time by others to do so, but he's chosen not to. Maybe he feels boxed-in out the gate and doesn't feel confident to continue on.

Just checking his profile to get a gist of his posting style from previous games, it seems when he's heavily dogpiled in votes he just gives up (from me skimming the BYOR 3 before he died in that game, where he voted for himself)? Him being noncommittal after Max and web seemingly coordinating a combined vote on him, along with Toony being indirectly railed into voting Knight next2, and then everyone after suspecting him, seems consistent behavior in how he acts.

To be honest, he's just a talking piece toward why I find Max's vote for him and your 3 minute flip-flop from Max to Knight suspicious.

[Lidku]

And that's also why I agree with NQT leaning on voting for you initially, as you knew it'd be easier to bully/get Knightwing64 voted off first. Easy target, easy wagon.

Maximum Spin

Aww, I didn't get to be scum again this time.

I don't like roleplay, so Knightwing and Lenglon are clearly the mafia.

Do you think it's an actual scumtell or are you going after an easy target?

Also, I'd like to come back to this from Maximum Spin:

I feel like this is obvious at this point, but just to be totally clear, I never felt particularly strongly that Lenglon was suspicious for RPing, which is why I voted Knightwing, the one I was much more confident about, in that post. I mostly just called Lenglon out because I really don't like RPing and I want everyone to quit having fun because fun is a filthy parasite. I considered it a possibility that the RPing was a deliberate cover, but it was only a low-level suspicion and, at this point, I'd say it's become very much a minority concern for me.

I honestly find Max's reasoning here VERY flimsy. His first post out the gate was to tag Knightwing with a vote, after feeling "strongly" for Knightwing over Lenglon: which is quite ridiculous since before that, Knightwing literally only made two posts. And they were both RP, along with Lenglon doing most of the "rp'ing" before that.

What exact strength, tell-wise, could Max get from Knightwing with only two posts at game start? Can't be RVS, since Max implies his vote toward Knight is "strong".

As a matter-of-fact, before you shifted interest on K64, even ToonyMan (who currently has a vote on Knightwing) leaned him as Town.

Hmm, I like your spunk NQT. You went above and beyond the call of duty with extra categories of reads.

I'm gonna say NQT is town. Knigtwing is probably town too though I need to see non-roleplay posts.

Like I said, I think Max choose to go for Knightwing over Lenglon because he knew Knightwing would lose confidence to be serious when he's perceived as being dogpiled on. His RP excuse, whether real along the lines of being a minor-factor in his vote decision, or a completely fake justification, was just a cover for the fact because he knew Lenglon would be more likely to defend/ask a reason for themselves being voted against.

[Jim Groovester]

I can't decide if Lidku is scum or this is another example of him committing (and then doubling and tripling down) to an incorrect, off-base case.

Knightwing: webadict has dropped his act so far, can you give a defense on your side on why you're acting so strange?

Why are you so sure Knightwing64 is Town here? What has he done?

I'm not sure on whether or not Knight is truly Town or Mafia.

I have a hard time balancing your opinions about all the players you think are scum for voting Knightwing64, and your actions regarding Knightwing64, and then this wishy-washy noncommittal opinion about Knightwing64 himself.

Like you've already picked out your scum team and want him to come in to defend himself but you preserve the possibility that Knightwing64 is scum?