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Author Topic: The Founders - A RiskyArmsCivGodPoliticking Game (Experimentation VI)  (Read 19782 times)

m1895

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Re: The Founders - A RiskyArmsCivGodPoliticking Game (Exploration II)
« Reply #90 on: July 27, 2022, 08:30:43 pm »

Explore 49-C
The lions are probably there

Quote from: Important People
Explore 49-C (1): m1895
Quote from: The Dregs
« Last Edit: July 27, 2022, 09:03:39 pm by m1895 »
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Powder Miner

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Re: The Founders - A RiskyArmsCivGodPoliticking Game (Exploration II)
« Reply #91 on: July 27, 2022, 09:13:46 pm »

Quote from: Major Votebox
Explore 49-C (2): m1895, Powder Miner
Quote from: Esteemed Minor Votebox Please Vote With Powder Miner In The Future
49-C does pretty much seem like the dead-obvious candidate, given that it's the only inland tile that borders 48-C (where the lions are ravaging) but not our original tile (where the lions aren't ravaging).
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Doomblade187

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Re: The Founders - A RiskyArmsCivGodPoliticking Game (Exploration II)
« Reply #92 on: July 27, 2022, 09:17:17 pm »

Rope Traps: With the encroaching lion presence, we need to establish control over our settlement and protect our people. Using our newly developed ropes, we'll bait specially set traps that will immobilize and restrain the prey.

Quote from: Major Votebox
Explore 49-C (2): m1895, Powder Miner
Rope Traps: (0)
Quote from: Esteemed Minor Votebox
Rope Traps: (0)
Explore 49-C (1): Doomblade

I have been informed by rereading the OP that this may not be the correct phase for this.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2022, 09:41:43 pm by Doomblade187 »
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NUKE9.13

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Re: The Founders - A RiskyArmsCivGodPoliticking Game (Exploration II)
« Reply #93 on: July 28, 2022, 03:58:06 am »

Out of my way, peasants.
Quote from: Major Votebox
Explore 49-C (4.1): m1895, Powder Miner, NUKE9.13, MINORS
Rope Traps: (0)
Quote from: Esteemed Minor Votebox
Rope Traps: (0)
Explore 49-C (1): Doomblade
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Man of Paper

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Re: The Founders - A RiskyArmsCivGodPoliticking Game (Exploration II)
« Reply #94 on: July 28, 2022, 06:21:00 pm »

Any minors with differing opinions might want to voice and argue for them, lest the majors push their agenda unopposed!
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Light forger

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Re: The Founders - A RiskyArmsCivGodPoliticking Game (Exploration II)
« Reply #95 on: July 29, 2022, 12:48:28 am »

Quote from: Major Votebox
Explore 49-C (4.1): m1895, Powder Miner, NUKE9.13, MINORS
Rope Traps: (0)
Quote from: Esteemed Minor Votebox
Rope Traps: (0)
Explore 49-C (2): Doomblade, Lightforger
Who am I to argue with my betters?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2022, 12:53:13 am by Light forger »
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Man of Paper

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The Founders - A RiskyArmsCivGodPoliticking Game (Expansion II)
« Reply #96 on: July 29, 2022, 11:17:37 pm »

Exploration II: The Pride
Now including TURNTURNTURN for easy update searching!

A group of tribesfolk, made up from some of the more experienced scouts and hunters, set out to the east into 49-C at the behest of one of the Major Founders (m1895+1I). Their goal was to track down the lions plaguing their people for so long in order to figure out how best to put a stop to their mayhem.

The lions were elusive, but the keen eyes of your people were able to pick up their trails even after momentarily losing them a handful of times. Although the party was attacked by a particularly large lioness at one point, losing a couple tribals in the ambush, they managed to fatally wound the beast and continue on with their duties. Duties made drastically easier thanks to the fact that the lions had gathered and made their home atop and in the shadows of a particularly large plateau that dominated the landscape - and spewed magnetofumes from a number of vents near its top. The rocky formation was perhaps the best natural cover the lions could find in the Savannah, but the landscape lacked enough edible flora for there to be any wildlife in large enough sizes or numbers to satisfy the pride's hunger, and so they set out farther and farther until coming across the lake and, eventually, your encroaching tribesfolk.

Your people were careful, and somehow managed to get close enough to the plateau to observe the creatures without being detected and subsequently torn to shreds. The pride numbered at fourteen, with four of them sporting the large manes that marked them as males, and four more being small cubs. Most of the pride resided at the foot of the plateau's western cliff, but what appeared to be the alpha male and his preferred pair of lionesses took their place atop the plateau a couple dozen meters above their kin. Sheer cliffs lined the plateau on all sides but east, where it gradually sloped downward to meet the ground.

There was another, more accessible plateau to the south that the party ascended, allowing them to get a good view of the surrounding regions - regions dominated by endless sea. Except for one landmark. Far, far to the east, a massive spire rose from the ground to break up the relatively flat landscape even moreso than the plateaus. A massive plume of thick fumes arose from this intimidating formation which stood at the edge of your world. Your people had found their home following the magnetofumes, and this pillar of rock and smoke, a beacon both day and night, has called to them just the same.

Your people also walked the beaches of 49-C, keen on identifying anything that could be of use for their tribe. There were some fiddler crabs and large sea birds, but nothing in numbers enough to sustain a settled tribe for long. The only thing it had in abundance was a long stretch of white quartz Sand that made up a portion of the beach. While other beaches familiar to the tribe also had sand present, it was very often marred by mud and debris washed ashore by the tides, and the desert sands are so fine that they are practically stone dust. Here, however, your tribe could appreciate sand's natural beauty.

Settling in this region would be somewhat difficult and eat into the tribe's stores of food. The lack of a significant wood source might also prove problematic now that our settlements use the resource on a larger scale than their nomadic days.

Tribe successfully scouted 49-C.

As you can see, unlike settling, you only get a rough idea of what surrounding areas are, but you get better information on what the cost to settle would be before actually settling. Other details, such as regular meteorological events or potentially recurring natural disasters, would also be identified if afflicting the zone.

Resources Identified: 
Limestone Chimneys (Stone)
Fumic Plateau (Magnetofumes x2)
White Quartz Beach (Sand)
Lion Cubs? (Lions?)


Your people eventually return with their findings, and you can now more readily make your plans. It is now the Expansion Phase. You can choose to expand the borders of your tribe with a new settlement, propose new creations to further the militaristic, social, cultural, or industrial capabilities of the tribe, or declare an action against a zone.

If, for some reason, you have to attack a region, you simply declare which one it is and a generic offensive action will occur. You may wish to write a slightly deeper strategy in order to better work with the strengths and weaknesses of yourself and the target, or your knowledge of the terrain, but it is not strictly necessary.

Sometimes you'll be informed of potential resources marked by a ?. These are resources that may disappear based on the actions you take. While more resources is always fun, sometimes it might be better to ignore that potential and erase said potential resource from the map.

Spoiler: Available Resources (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Known Regions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Resources By Region (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Tokens (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: The Master List (click to show/hide)
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Powder Miner

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Re: The Founders - A RiskyArmsCivGodPoliticking Game (Expansion II)
« Reply #97 on: July 30, 2022, 01:15:43 am »

So the way I reckon it, we’ve really got two options for this expansion phase, seeing as the lions are of paramount priority: we can use the expansion phase to work on our military technology and put something up to prepare us better against the lions, or we can expand into 49-C to execute the lions.

Putting something like bows or atl-atls or shields or pikes or whatever would no doubt be effective in preparing us for attacking the lions, but the only trouble with this is that the expansion phase is the only phase in which we can actually permanently deal with the threat without multiple actions of investment; failing to expand into the lions now means that they are free to continue attacking us for the turn, and while better weapons might help, they’re mostly just killing and isolating lone tribespeople.

On the other hand, given the explored nature of the region of the tribe, the size of the tribe (10 adults, split across two locations is something that I think we can handle with a weapon like spears; the lions haven’t exactly been going toe to toe with armed human groups until now, and even if we did take losses, a small armed group was able to kill a large lioness.

In terms of the actual settlement, we’re more than fine on food, but we do need 1 Wood for the maintenance of the settlement’s Pit Houses; the wood tokens our Seedkeepers gave us conveniently handles this.

Quote from: Major Votebox
Expand to 49-C and use a Wood Token (1): Powder Miner
Quote from: Minor Votebox
« Last Edit: July 30, 2022, 01:27:23 am by Powder Miner »
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NUKE9.13

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Re: The Founders - A RiskyArmsCivGodPoliticking Game (Expansion II)
« Reply #98 on: July 30, 2022, 04:31:07 am »

I agree that expanding into 49-C would be the simplest way of dealing with the lion threat, I'm not totally sure it's the optimal play. I've asked MoP on Discord if it is required to expand there in order to deal with the lions. I'm guessing it probably isn't- we know it is possible to Exploit food sources outside of our territory, so it seems likely that we can also eliminate the lions as a threat without establishing a settlement there.
Lion domestication was mentioned as a possibility. Maybe not a good possibility, but it is an option, and it might be fun. In which case marching in and wiping them out would be too hasty- especially given their extremely low numbers (I had assumed we were dealing with an endemic population, not a single pride). If we wanted to do that, developing our 'military' technology with some non-lethal equipment could be a good starting point:
Quote
Hey Niko, let's go Bolaing:
As hunting becomes a more methodical affair, hunters begin to consider alternatives to just stabbing animals with spears. For one, this requires getting close to a potentially dangerous animal, and for two, this removes any chance of capturing the animal alive- something that seems like an intriguing possibility, given how quickly meat spoils; having a live animal on hand to kill whenever you want would be great.
The two factors have two different obvious solutions, neither of which are very effective. The 'getting close' issue is easily solved by throwing rocks, although a rock is unlikely to deal crippling damage to larger animals, and hitting smaller ones is difficult. The 'capturing alive' issue could be solved by using newly-developed ropes to entangle an animal, but the animal is unlikely to cooperate, meaning it would require the animal already being immobilised to effectively do so. If only there was some way to throw ropes.
Tying a rope to a rock is easily done, but doesn't quite achieve the goal- swinging the rope around lets you throw the rock further and harder, but it doesn't entangle the target. Fortunately, it doesn't take a significant leap to tie a rock to both ends of a rope, and all of a sudden you're in business. Though crude, this 'bola' will keep spinning as it flies through the air, and on impact the ropes can therefore wrap around the target's legs. With some iteration, the basic concept can be refined- the optimal size and weight of both rocks, the length and thickness of the rope, and even more advanced designs featuring three or more rocks of differing sizes can be developed over time.
With these bolas in hand, hunters are able to entangle their prey from a distance, then close in- either to kill the helpless creature, or place it in more substantial bindings for transport back to the settlement.

GOAL: Make hunting safer. Provide a better defensive option against predators. Enable the capture of wild animals (at Persistence Hunting distances). Pave the way for domestication. 

I'm not going to vote yet- I'd like to hear what others think, and consider other potential courses of action.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2022, 01:02:33 pm by NUKE9.13 »
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Kashyyk

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Re: The Founders - A RiskyArmsCivGodPoliticking Game (Expansion II)
« Reply #99 on: July 30, 2022, 09:15:55 am »

I want pet lions, and we should have plenty of time to domesticate them over the ages.

Quote from: Major Votebox
Expand to 49-C and use a Wood Token (1): Powder Miner
Bolas (1.1): MINOR
Quote from: Minor Votebox
Expand to 49-C and use a Wood Token ():
Bolas (1): Kashyyk
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Doomblade187

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Re: The Founders - A RiskyArmsCivGodPoliticking Game (Exploration II)
« Reply #100 on: July 30, 2022, 09:21:00 am »

Rope Traps: With the lion presence identified and their pride located, we have the information needed to secure our settlement and protect our people. Using our newly developed ropes, we'll bait specially set traps that will immobilize and restrain the prey. The prey can then be either further restrained and held in captivity or killed for their resources. These traps can either be set on known approaches from the lion pride, or in known prey animal areas. Bait will vary based in target, and traps should be supervised from a distance or checked regularly to ensure prey doesn't escape.

With the recent discoveries in 49-C, it's clear we'll need to improve our food production. This helps with food supply, and provides security against the lions. Additionally, this lets us go for either pet lions or lion murder moving forward. Also, simply expanding in might just kill the lions and remove their resource.

Quote from: Major Votebox
Expand to 49-C and use a Wood Token (1): Powder Miner
Bolas (0):
Rope Traps (0):
Quote from: Minor Votebox
Expand to 49-C and use a Wood Token ():
Bolas (1): Kashyyk
Rope Traps (1): Doomblade
« Last Edit: July 30, 2022, 09:22:51 am by Doomblade187 »
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In any case it would be a battle of critical thinking and I refuse to fight an unarmed individual.
One mustn't stare into the pathos, lest one become Pathos.

Taricus

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Re: The Founders - A RiskyArmsCivGodPoliticking Game (Exploration II)
« Reply #101 on: July 30, 2022, 09:53:32 pm »

Quote from: Major Votebox
Expand to 49-C and use a Wood Token (1): Powder Miner
Bolas (1.1): MINOR
Rope Traps (0):
Quote from: Minor Votebox
Expand to 49-C and use a Wood Token ():
Bolas (2): Kashyyk, Taricus
Rope Traps (1): Doomblade
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NUKE9.13

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Re: The Founders - A RiskyArmsCivGodPoliticking Game (Exploration II)
« Reply #102 on: July 31, 2022, 08:37:04 am »

Quote from: Major Votebox
Expand to 49-C and use a Wood Token (1): Powder Miner
Bolas (2.1): NUKE9.13, MINOR
Rope Traps (0):
Quote from: Minor Votebox
Expand to 49-C and use a Wood Token ():
Bolas (2): Kashyyk, Taricus
Rope Traps (1): Doomblade
I think Bolas are better than Traps, as setting up, maintaining, and retrieving traps far from a settlement is harder than carrying a couple of bolas on a long-distance hunt. That is, if we did traps, we might not be able to harvest the lions without expanding there.
I prefer Bolas to Expansion because the expansion would be a net drain on resources (-1 Food), we don't really want/need the resources there (yet), except for the lions who might be exterminated by our settlement. Bolas let us deal with the lion threat in a less destructive way, and provide a technological stepping stone to domestication.
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Powder Miner

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Re: The Founders - A RiskyArmsCivGodPoliticking Game (Expansion II)
« Reply #103 on: August 02, 2022, 12:01:53 pm »

Those are some pretty solid points about expansion - 49-C DOES contain magnetofumes, and we do have more than enough food to take the place, but they are sort of worth about jack-diddly to us right now, so the opportunity cost perhaps is not worth it at this juncture. Importantly, I also assumed that we had to expand to kill the lions but it has been confirmed that creating new tools sufficiently capable of doing so may also do the job.

Relatedly, I have concerns about Bolas - going down that route sort of commits us to a series of actions that I don't really know that I, at least, want to take (I'm more inclined to moving into pottery and more intensified construction work and labor work, maybe culminating in early metalwork at some point), but also which I'm not sure about in terms of protecting us if we run into another Enemy (Lions are explicitly tutorials on the subject). If we run into human enemies, and they DO have ranged weaponry, considering the extraordinarily open terrain that we're talking about here, even if we had something like attack lions I'm sort of suspecting they would be liable to just get bowed down/atl-atled down or the like, and bolas wouldn't be great there.

Bows (which multiple sources lead me to believe we're plenty capable of building at this point in time) would basically put us as defended for the foreseeable future, and would only take one action to do so, given that they have been largely built up to by our previous work. This does potentially destroy the lion resource - but if we aren't expanding over there and murdering them, we're unlikely to slaughter the males and cubs, and may well just get left alone after a few lionesses get dropped.

Quote from: Archery
The bow and the arrow are yet another culmination of the work performed by our woodshapers - with the tools and technology available to them, a tool was created that could fire deadly, spear-like implements (and accurately) many meters out, far beyond the range that any spear could ever be thrown.

Although the creation of a bow is not an easy task, it isn't something that really requires any new technologies from our woodshapers beyond that of thw bow itself. An appropriately-shaped thin log is split (and then repeatedly split or chipped off at the corners until any twists or bends in the wood are no longer present) and then shaped through tapering and carving until it has been turned into a, well, bow shape (plus or minus ergonomic details such as a thicker and thus stiffer handle). Creating the bowstring involved taking fibers from split reeds or peeled bark (depending on the location of the bowmaker) and twisting it into cordage, creating a strong string that could withstand being used within a weapon such as a bow.

Perhaps the most awkward piece involved (although by no means an overwhelmingly difficult task) was in the creation of arrows - assembling arrowheads and shafts themselves was trivially simple given the processes and infrastructure that already existed for wood, stone, and tools created through the fusion of the above, but with no history of hunting birds (perhaps it is a chicken-and-arrow problem), feathers did have to be found where fallen or otherwise scavengeable, at which point they could be trimmed with stone tools to be attached to the arrows as fletchings.

All of this work allowed, as much as it was often discussed as a defense against lions and any other later potential threats, hunters a new tool with which to "play", so to speak, expanding the repertoire of potential targets and hopefully drastically reducing the risk of any taskings such as the scouting of the lions' territory that had just claimed lives.

Quote from: Major Votebox
Expand to 49-C and use a Wood Token (0):
Bolas (2.1): NUKE9.13, MINOR
Rope Traps (0):
Archery (1): Powder Miner
Quote from: Minor Votebox
Expand to 49-C and use a Wood Token ():
Bolas (2): Kashyyk, Taricus
Rope Traps (1): Doomblade
Archery (0):
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Man of Paper

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Re: The Founders - A RiskyArmsCivGodPoliticking Game (Expansion II)
« Reply #104 on: August 03, 2022, 08:49:48 am »

Get your votes in! Still got a major needing to provide input and all them minors that can flex their muscles!
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