Yeah, NJW2000 has rubbed me wrong all game. Enough's enough. He dies.
*various nonsense*
I find a common scum tactic to be argument-dismissal, that is, either misinterpreting or selectively quoting someone's post to make them look weaker than they actually are. NJW2000 has been doing this
all game.
I feel like web wouldn't put in random nonsense like non-shared mafiakills that also block so the victim doesn't get to play.
As much as this is outguessing the mod, it's also absurd because NJW did play in
BYOR 15. NJW2000 should have at least a basic understanding of the fact that webadict prefers to make setups more interesting and complex instead of less. Although this is a Beginner's BYOR, this game isn't trying to be Mostly Vanilla Mafia. If anything, a mafiakill ability that also blocks is really simple. It's not a reasonable argument to make that 'web wouldn't put in' my ability.
Furthermore, at this point we've seen Egan's role flip. NJW has an example of exactly what our mod is willing to do. NJW is representing my role as something absurd or unlikely, but that doesn't match up with reality. If anything, given Tric's role, and Knightwing's role, my role is on the lesser end of this game's strength.
Yes, that is correct. Well, not the 'try to kill you' part. But I did act on you last night. Regardless, I am town.
Let me get this straight. You have an auto that makes all your mafiakill powers not kill?
And you targeted Max? A person not targetable by town players? Is there a reason you're not being a bit more specific about how your auto works, given how this looks? Yes/no answer to that one would be fine.
Importantly, did you actually hit Max?
Note that this is post is
after I made my claim.
When I said all my actions appear to be mafiakills, that's because they are in fact mafiakill abilities. They have the tag and everything.
However, my auto ability has two components.
Firstly, it lets me use abilities as though I was mafia-aligned, which includes using mafiakills. Turns out it also let me bypass that crane-shield thingamajig.
Secondly, it makes my mafiakill abilities not kill.
I clearly stated that my auto 'lets me use abilities as though I was mafia-aligned' earlier, a fact which NJW seems to ignore.
I'm still sus on FallacyofUrist because there is no good explanation as to how he was able to target Maximum Spin
Note that Shakerag makes the exact same point later on, similarly blind - or misrepresenting/ignoring - my auto claim.
Jesus. I’m not going to bother responding to Lenglons text wall of mangled logic and misrepresentation. Max actually got my point, he just didn’t think the event I considered low probability was that unlikely. I don’t know why this is so hard for you Lenglon, but I’m really not interested in engaging with someone who responds so emotionally and with such little respect for other players. Given you thought I was someone else the whole game, I don’t really feel obliged to explain things to you.
Ironic given the habit of misrepresentation NJW seems to have. While Lenglon has been emotional, it has not been to the exclusion of logic. As for the last sentence, 'given you thought I was someone else the whole game, I don't really feel obliged to explain things to you'...
*sigh*
NJW: Fix your lies. Now. I'm not going to put up with obvious bullshit, and you can just enjoy the vote for your troubles.
I don't find your failure to properly read my posts alignment indicative. I just find it obstructs my play. Also, yeah, I'm not doll, but confusion is fair enough. They did tend to be a bit more... abrasive.
Just earlier, NJW states that the identity confusion was 'fair enough', which is strange given he later used it as an excuse to not engage with her.
@FoU: yeah, that was your point on Egan, I hadn’t spotted it and acknowledged it was interesting after you posted it. It is the most dubious thing about their play today, aside from the miller stuff. I never claimed it was my point, and you making it doesn’t mean it’s wrong, regardless of alignment. This is a weak prod at me.
Misrepresentation. I never said 'NJW is scum because he took my point and says it was his'. I pointed that out because NJW took my point, didn't acknowledge that it was mine in the first place - there's a subtle difference there, between 'says it was his' and 'doesn't attribute its origin'.
This is relevant because at the same time, NJW was arguing for an Egan/me scumteam, while using the point of someone he thought was partnered with Egan to argue that Egan was scum. He never bothered to explicitly consider why I would even make that point in the first place.
But then again, NJW hasn't been keen on using behavior-based evidence at all so far.
As to my case on you: sorry, but I think it’s good enough to vote on.
[1] It’s ironic that you tell me not to outguess the mod, given the last role you gave me was entirely about doing that.
[2] As for your other play… you’re decent at mafia, so the “you stole my idea” attack was about as weak as you’ll get.
[3] The miller stuff is simply the most important thing today, and it’s what I’m voting on.
[1] Funny but irrelevant.
[2] I never said stole, I said 'used without attribution'. Misrepresentation manipulation, covered in the above section.
[3] Considering that NJW is an experienced player, this is
really, unusually weak. We need to use behavior analysis in our scum hunting. NJW outright refuses to do this.
We’re not no-lynching.
NJW: Does my non-claim behavior support your case? I’m expecting a yes or no answer here.
Do you mean your late claim, or the claimed thing you shouldn’t claim that explains it? Both slightly, I’d say.
I explicitly say 'non-claim behavior'. He responds with 'do you mean your late claim, or the claimed thing that you shouldn't claim' (the latter referring to my claim of the secret interaction involving Max's ability). I
explicitly ask him if my behavior not related to my claim supports his case that I'm scum. He dodges the question, essentially.
No, I mean my behavior which has nothing to do with my claim. Behavior that is not in the category of claim-related. Does that support your vote on me, and if so, why? Please provide direct quotes if possible.
I follow up on his bs. He does not respond to this post.
You missed me.
Quite busy rn but I'd just like to note that voting someone other than one of the miller claims means you believe both miller claims or you're more than 50% on that person. Tric elim isn't something I want, I want Egan or FoU.
No real thoughts on his power... seems potentially overpowered, and capable of giving some info, but quite random?
This is NJW's next post, which does not address my response in the slightest. Possibly because he knows he
can't point to scummy behavior of mine without using the power of misrepresentation.
I really don't think a weak meta read without specific examples/comparisons and a conspiracy around my follower-miller claim is a stronger case than one actually based around a very simple question.
Has Fallacy been actively pushing cases and hunting scum?
Can you answer that one, too?
I will say that
this post was sent to Egan, not NJW, but the point I make here is still widely applicable.
NJW simply
will not consider the fundamental point of this post. Not anywhere I've seen.
Because, to put it simply, that is the strongest evidence against his argument that I must be scum. If I am actively scum hunting, attacking, creating cases - if I am
acting town in every way other than claiming partial-miller late, then it undercuts his case, so he simply refuses to acknowledge it, and minimizes my points whenever possible.
This is frustrating to say the least.
Because if Egan is fakeclaiming and FoU isn’t, Egan just claimed a highly unusual role, one I’ve never seen or even heard of, and something more similar than any other role I’ve seen just happened to exist in the game. It’s an astonishingly unlikely event. When there is a much more likely explanation involving FoU fakeclaiming or neither fakeclaiming, we are not entitled to accept the ridiculously unlikely explanation as plausible.
I mean, all Egans posts so far could have been ones he was forced to make by a post restriction. It’s an extremely unlikely explanation, so I reject it.
Has anyone ever seen the “I appear to have done the mafia kill” role before? I think it’s a very nonstandard miller-like role
NJW2000 has played BYOR15. He knows what our mod is capable of. The fact that we're playing a Beginner's game doesn't mean that webadict stops being webadict, it just means that webadict tones things down.
If anything, the central philosophy of Beginner's BYOR is that new players
want our wacky, weird, beautiful messy setups, and a Beginner's BYOR eases them into that. This is clearly expressed in the OP.
Ho hum. I find that hard to believe. Also, have a look through Fal and EgAns early interactions. They’re just a tad weird. At the very least, I think FoU is lying here.
Anything to say for yourself, FallacyOfUrist?
Both Egan and I are practical jokers. Note that NJW does not quote the 'early interactions' or provide examples.
I mean, you eliminating a very obvious town miller and asking Lenglon for my lynch without actually quoting my behaviour isn't very townie, but maybe you're just bad? Dunno.
Misrepresentation. Note what I said earlier:
You gonna justify calling me scum though? Like any kind of explanation for that? How about going back to how I stole your idea... because that was suuuuch a good case.
Well, if I use your approximate level of argument strength, 'stole my idea without mentioning I brought it up first at all' and a few other minor things would be enough to justify a vote on you.
NJW2000 sus.
No, I think I'll do better than that. This game deserves full cases. Behavior arguments, mechanics arguments, working in tandem. Not "Fallacy scum because miller and not claimed in first post!" That's not enough, buddy.
Your job here, if this is the alternate reality where you're town and I'm scum, is to use my behavior and the mechanics to show how I'm scum to get Lenglon to execute me. Not just the mechanics, and not just the behavior.
Let's get to happily trying to get each other eliminated, shall we?
NJW2000 says that I'm asking Lenglon to execute him without trying to build a case.
Looks up at my mega post.
To conclude:
NJW2000 is using uncharacteristically weak arguments that ignore the behavior aspect of the game. I would not expect this behavior from experienced town.
NJW2000 is misrepresenting arguments and evidence against him.
NJW2000 claims that a BYOR run by webadict cannot be absurd.
This isn't even digging into the NJW2000 / Lenglon duels, but frankly, those deserve their own post.
The strongest point I have to make is that
NJW2000 is not hunting scum, and refuses to acknowledge that that is what I am doing.NJW2000 should be executed.
Shakerag I'm not as sure about, but he deserves his own investigation post as well.
I fully expect NJW2000 to reply to this post and misrepresent every point he can get his hands on, which will be exhausting to respond to, so, so, so just... read for yourself. Alright? Draw some conclusions. He hasn't been hunting. I have. That's it.
Author
Topic: Beginner Mafia 2: BYOR Edition - Game Over! (Read 41668 times)