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Author Topic: Rogue Trader: Laughing Gold (OOC)  (Read 34743 times)

Stirk

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Re: Rogue Trader: Laughing Gold (OOC)
« Reply #45 on: July 07, 2022, 09:48:33 pm »

I've got a history of being a long-lasting player in games that interest me
Also, I recognize several others here as long-running players as well (Egan) (Cael). So I would actually expect your endurance as GM to be the limiting factor, rather than the player's endurance. GMing always has a much heavier workload after all. In any case, with this player group you actually could easily end up with exactly that kind of dedicated group of players. If you're up for running it for that long anyway.

It is more of a pacing thing. If everyone is reasonably interested and active I could get an update out a day. That still means that we'd only get one combat turn out per day, so something like a rival RT's guard-tier troops ambushing you using cover and suppressive fire could take you two weeks to fight off. Everyone should be having fun during the combat encounter, but it means you're really not looking at getting corruption from the Warp or otherwise at any significant pace. We could play two years with nobody hitting 30 corruption.

You get (Fear) rating from fighting a demon and failing the fear test. The demon that appears from unlucky Warp roles has fear 2. So you'd need at minimum 5 encounters with that warp demon to get the first corruption mutation, and 50 to get removed from the game, and that assumes you fail every test. This can be avoided entirely in several ways by making yourself immune to Fear tests.

Otherwise there is a small chance of getting 1d5 Corruption from Warp travel if you get a random Hallucination then the corruption one, which basically requires your gellar field is down and you fail a willpower test at least 1 DOS and you roll badly. In short Warp travel will not leave you irreversibly corrupted and if it does it will be your fault anyway. I'm probably missing some other potential sources of corruption from Warp travel but the idea that it will irreversibly corrupt you and there is nothing you can do about it is simply not correct. It is much more likely to tear your ship apart, and slightly more likely to tear you apart than it is to be a true threat to your soul.

I can see what he's talking about and simply disagree.

Quote
I do find it odd how the warp can be as rough to use for travel as it seems to be in the ruleset and yet have it still be the primary method used when other methods do exist in-universe.

Warp is Hell. It is where Deamons live. It is where souls go where you die. It is a terrible place that is incredibly dangerous and if anything the rules underestimate how dangerous it is. Which is why I want Warp Travel to feel dangerous.

Lore wise the Emperor tried to make an Imperial webway but stuff happened and it got wrecked. The Golden Throne was originally supposed to allow this. Humans would use this if they could, but its a secret and stuff. Tau ships are fluffed as significantly slower to the point they can't really have a galactic civilization the size of the Imperium with their technology.

Quote
I don't see how that would the the normal decisions people would make.

The Imperium considers it a normal decision to have slaves tow giant shells into place instead of just investing in an autoloader. A bunch of people dying every time you make a warp trip is considered acceptable losses to them. They're not really good people. Something something Grimdarkness of the far future.

Quote
Hell, there's supposed to be individuals that are lifelong spacers, how would these literal children survive repeated warp trips over and over long enough for them to grow up?

There are around 20k people in the smaller ships, increasing from there. With the warp rules you arn't going to lose that many barring bad luck or bad planning. To think of it this way there are plenty of people who survived WWII despite their cities getting bombed and shelled on a daily bases, being dangerous doesn't mean there arn't any survivors.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2022, 09:56:54 pm by Stirk »
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Stirk

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Re: Rogue Trader: Laughing Gold (OOC)
« Reply #46 on: July 07, 2022, 10:51:02 pm »

Current Status:

Done:
Regina Winters (a1s)
Indaria (Lenglon)

In Progress:
Twig (Maximum Spin): Needs Fluff
Symonne Cipio(Sirus): Needs Fluff

Not Started:
Ship Stuff

Barring Egan deciding to join, you're all good to start talking about the ship now that PF modifiers have been decided.
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Lenglon

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Re: Rogue Trader: Laughing Gold (OOC)
« Reply #47 on: July 07, 2022, 11:12:06 pm »

I don't have any ship designs in particular to push for. anyone else have input?
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Sirus

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Re: Rogue Trader: Laughing Gold (OOC)
« Reply #48 on: July 08, 2022, 07:35:24 pm »

Sorry, had a rough week at work. I'll get fluff up tomorrow for sure, possibly tonight before going to bed.

As for the ship, I'd choose to strain the bank account on something large and capable rather than go cheap on a ship in favor of more immediate profit. Can't spend money if we're dead, after all, and if we're riding a barely-functional scrapheap we'd be likely to end up that way.
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Lenglon

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Re: Rogue Trader: Laughing Gold (OOC)
« Reply #49 on: July 09, 2022, 05:23:17 am »

Sorry, had a rough week at work. I'll get fluff up tomorrow for sure, possibly tonight before going to bed.

As for the ship, I'd choose to strain the bank account on something large and capable rather than go cheap on a ship in favor of more immediate profit. Can't spend money if we're dead, after all, and if we're riding a barely-functional scrapheap we'd be likely to end up that way.
Well, if that is what you want, and since nobody else has put forward a ship design, here's something I've thrown together that probably is a bad idea but who knows:

Super-expensive ship (78 SP in total), and I suspect someone else could make a better design, but I figured we needed someone to put something out there at least so discussion could begin.
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Sirus

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Re: Rogue Trader: Laughing Gold (OOC)
« Reply #50 on: July 09, 2022, 08:31:48 am »

Iiiiiinteresting. I've never seen a dedicated carrier design before, but I think I like it. Getting additional small craft to fill the remaining bays and replace casualties might be difficult, but not insurmountable; we've got a decent amount of Commerce power in the current party for acquisition tests. If we could get some Eldar craft to fill the bays with, like those Eagle bombers, even better.
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Caellath

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Re: Rogue Trader: Laughing Gold (OOC)
« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2022, 09:55:06 am »

I honestly always have a fair amount of designs ready to go, so I'd be willing to offer some or help with creation. Lenglon's general idea is great in my opinion; I have yet to check the specifics but I can provide a quick summary:

The Dictator is an incredible cruiser that has extra turrets and detection compared to a Lunar or Tyrant. Since it's an one-ship game at least to start with, having a cruiser that's both flexible and powerful is a boon. The Runecaster is a great piece of Eldar gear to avoid a disaster, and added to the fast warp drive and warpsbane hull, you can do a lot of fast Warp travel with it.

The prow lance is however unlikely to do much since you need macrocannons (or a lucky critical from torpedoes or strike craft) to strip away the void shields. Since craft are expensive I'd lean towards only keeping the inbuilt landing bays and equipping broadside macrocannons for an 'all comers' build since macrocannons pull off a lot of work both during void combat and ground bombardment. Finally, an Auto-Temple would be a good investment, as it's a free (0 SP) pick that only takes up 1 space and energy but boosts Morale and Creed achievement points.

I'll add it's worth checking with the GM how important the ship will be in the campaign since having a bomb-ass cruiser means being more frugal with the rarity of personal equipment.

Edit: Screw it, if I'm gonna be this involved I might as well create a character so I'm just not a rando poking my nose into this. Might take just a little bit as I have to finish a FEF application then tomorrow's my birthday.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2022, 10:04:06 am by Caellath »
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Stirk

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Re: Rogue Trader: Laughing Gold (OOC)
« Reply #52 on: July 09, 2022, 10:41:47 am »

I'll add it's worth checking with the GM how important the ship will be in the campaign since having a bomb-ass cruiser means being more frugal with the rarity of personal equipment.

Edit: Screw it, if I'm gonna be this involved I might as well create a character so I'm just not a rando poking my nose into this. Might take just a little bit as I have to finish a FEF application then tomorrow's my birthday.

Mostly up to the crew. The current plan is for your Eldar rep to offer three opportunities. Of the first three one is meant to revolve around space combat. A second one could plausibly be resolved with space combat, if you are particularly aggressive. Overall the game could be played with extensive or minimal space combat depending on what missions you take and how you resolve those missions.

Happy birthday BTW!
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Sirus

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Re: Rogue Trader: Laughing Gold (OOC)
« Reply #53 on: July 09, 2022, 10:57:22 am »

Would it be okay if my character came from outside the Koronus Expanse? I'm still working on the details, but the idea I had was for her Dark Voyage to be what brought her to this particular section of space in the first place. Like, some previous employer got it in their head to go treasure hunting on some forbidden world and things did not go well.
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Stirk

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Re: Rogue Trader: Laughing Gold (OOC)
« Reply #54 on: July 09, 2022, 11:03:03 am »

Would it be okay if my character came from outside the Koronus Expanse? I'm still working on the details, but the idea I had was for her Dark Voyage to be what brought her to this particular section of space in the first place. Like, some previous employer got it in their head to go treasure hunting on some forbidden world and things did not go well.

It is generally expected that RT characters come from all over the Imperium (or further in the case of Xenos characters). You don't have to limit your backstory to the Expanse, the ship could have picked you up a century ago on the other side of the galaxy if you wanted.
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Sirus

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Re: Rogue Trader: Laughing Gold (OOC)
« Reply #55 on: July 09, 2022, 11:15:22 am »

That makes the most sense, but I wanted to double-check. Thanks!

There we go, fluff added. I also replaced the plasma grenade with a geode grenade, for the extra blast radius. It's not quite frag grenade level, but it's about as strong and actually has armor penetration. I was also considering web grenades instead but I don't have a good handle on how effective they'd be at tying up enemies.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2022, 01:21:56 pm by Sirus »
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Lenglon

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Re: Rogue Trader: Laughing Gold (OOC)
« Reply #56 on: July 09, 2022, 05:41:06 pm »

I honestly always have a fair amount of designs ready to go, so I'd be willing to offer some or help with creation. Lenglon's general idea is great in my opinion; I have yet to check the specifics but I can provide a quick summary:

The Dictator is an incredible cruiser that has extra turrets and detection compared to a Lunar or Tyrant. Since it's an one-ship game at least to start with, having a cruiser that's both flexible and powerful is a boon. The Runecaster is a great piece of Eldar gear to avoid a disaster, and added to the fast warp drive and warpsbane hull, you can do a lot of fast Warp travel with it.

The prow lance is however unlikely to do much since you need macrocannons (or a lucky critical from torpedoes or strike craft) to strip away the void shields. Since craft are expensive I'd lean towards only keeping the inbuilt landing bays and equipping broadside macrocannons for an 'all comers' build since macrocannons pull off a lot of work both during void combat and ground bombardment. Finally, an Auto-Temple would be a good investment, as it's a free (0 SP) pick that only takes up 1 space and energy but boosts Morale and Creed achievement points.

I'll add it's worth checking with the GM how important the ship will be in the campaign since having a bomb-ass cruiser means being more frugal with the rarity of personal equipment.

Edit: Screw it, if I'm gonna be this involved I might as well create a character so I'm just not a rando poking my nose into this. Might take just a little bit as I have to finish a FEF application then tomorrow's my birthday.
Happy BDay!

anyway, the thought regarding the prow lance was that frankly it would only rarely see use, and is more for fallback / utility than ship-to-ship fighting. Bombers don't care about void shields, so for ship-to-ship combat we could just maintain distance and let our strike craft do the work. I'm 1000% fine with swapping it for something else, but what would you swap it with?

squadrons are individually stronger the more there are of them working together, which is why the full-commit to the carrier archetype - it seems like a go big or go home style of combat. for example turrets only shoot down so many craft per combined strike, so lets say that they disable two squadrons of strike craft - if you have two hangers, then you get 2 strikes through, but if you have four, then you get six strikes through, so by doubling your hangers you triple your damage output. also, in both cases you lose the exact same number of strike craft. so the expense of using strike craft remains identical no matter how many hangers you have - even more heavily reinforcing the go full carrier or don't bother with it approach. That's why I think it'd be optimal to have pure launch bay broadsides.

Finally, I haven't found which book I should be looking in for the Auto-temple you talked about. Where is it?

EDIT: quick note about how bombers deal damage:
Quote from: page 14 of Battlefleet Koronus
Make a Challenging (+0) Command+Craft Rating Test (this will either be from a character avoard the carrier, or from a character leading the bombers personally), gaining a +5 bonus for every squadron of friendly bombers after the first. A successful test causes a single hit upon the enemy vessel, with an additional hit for every degree of success. This is up to a maximum of three hits, plus one additional maximum hit for every additional bomber squadron after the first. If the bombing run scores at least four degrees of success, the target also suffers a Critical Hit. Roll 1d5 on the Critical Hit chart on page 222 of Rodue Trader and apply the result.
Each hit deals 1d10+4 damage. Add together the damage rolled from each hit, and then subtract from that the armor value of the target ship. Bomber attacks ignore void shields. If, for any reason, the target ship has multiple armor values (such as from the Armoured Prow Component), then the lowest armor value is always used. The final total is the number of points of Hull Integrity the target ship loses.
After delivering their payload, the bombers withdraw to their carrier to refuel and rearm.
bolding for emphasis is mine.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2022, 05:56:22 pm by Lenglon »
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Sirus

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Re: Rogue Trader: Laughing Gold (OOC)
« Reply #57 on: July 09, 2022, 05:56:22 pm »

I think I'm with Lenglon; focusing on strike craft seems like a better choice than trying to mix strike craft with guns, especially if we're taking a hull that already has a focus on the former.

I think Caellath is suggesting macrobatteries instead of a prow lance because it's a lot easier to score extra hits with batteries (1 extra hit per degree of success) than with lances (1 extra hit per three degrees of success), which means the batteries have better odds of dealing damage through void shields. Lances might ignore armor, but shields seem pretty able to stop them cold.
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Caellath

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Re: Rogue Trader: Laughing Gold (OOC)
« Reply #58 on: July 09, 2022, 06:48:49 pm »

You have a good point when it comes to going full carrier. It's the best option as long as you can fill those bays, but I'm just a fan of having a good and reliable backup option at least temporarily while the PF isn't flowing, and macrobatteries do that. That and I had still to take a deeper look into the design; I've since seen you've stuffed it full of strike craft-related components which do incentivize just going full ham on strike craft, while I tend to go for (and had in mind) a barer design upon shipgen to keep enough PF for future upgrades.

I'll also suggest the Vessel of the Fleet package since I've noticed you haven't taken it and at the bare minimum (1SP) it gives a +10 to all Command tests in the ship which includes the strike craft-related ones.

The Auto Temple is in Hostile Acquisitions, pg. 72.

And I do know how bombers cause damage and ignore voidshields, my point is that the lance would do nothing without the means to strip away the void shields. The lance is better replaced by a good laser macrobattery, as those can still strike several times and have good reach that's similar to the launch bays'. Torpedoes or a nova cannon would also be better options but those require acquiring reloads.
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"Hey steve." You speak into the air.
>Yes?
"Could you guys also make a hamburger out of this arm when they cut it off? I wanted to eat it just for the sake of tasting it."
>That is horrible and disgusting. It will no doubt set you apart and create fear in your team mates. So of course.

Lenglon

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Re: Rogue Trader: Laughing Gold (OOC)
« Reply #59 on: July 09, 2022, 08:59:22 pm »


I'll also suggest the Vessel of the Fleet package since I've noticed you haven't taken it and at the bare minimum (1SP) it gives a +10 to all Command tests in the ship which includes the strike craft-related ones.
My lack of familiarity with this stuff is showing. I don't even know what you're talking about here and it sounds like a must-grab. Could you tell me where to find this too?

The Auto Temple is in Hostile Acquisitions, pg. 72.
Thanks! and it looks like there's no real drawbacks to having it. So yeah, def should be added.

And I do know how bombers cause damage and ignore voidshields, my point is that the lance would do nothing without the means to strip away the void shields. The lance is better replaced by a good laser macrobattery, as those can still strike several times and have good reach that's similar to the launch bays'. Torpedoes or a nova cannon would also be better options but those require acquiring reloads.
Solid point. laser macrobattery it is! Is that the Sunsear or something else... *checks various books* Okay, first, looks like I think you meant the sunsear laser battery. which seems like a good, solid choice. But, while I was looking, I stumbled over the Bombardment Cannon, and the +20 intimidate it gives vs planetary characters, and bonus progress towards military objectives against a planet. Thoughts on that vs the (unquestionably solid) sunsear lasers?

You have a good point when it comes to going full carrier. It's the best option as long as you can fill those bays, but I'm just a fan of having a good and reliable backup option at least temporarily while the PF isn't flowing, and macrobatteries do that. That and I had still to take a deeper look into the design; I've since seen you've stuffed it full of strike craft-related components which do incentivize just going full ham on strike craft, while I tend to go for (and had in mind) a barer design upon shipgen to keep enough PF for future upgrades.
rearranged your post because I wanted to respond to this last. specifically by attempting to build a stripped-down version of the ship design:
Spoiler: stripped-down version (click to show/hide)
While making the stripped-down version I audited the original, and the numbers didn't add up. additionally I wanted to add the changes we were discussing anyway, so here it is:

Spoiler: Deluxe Version (click to show/hide)
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((I don't think heating something that is right above us to a ridiculous degree is very smart. Worst case scenario we become +metal statues+. This is a finely crafted metal statue. It is encrusted with sharkmist and HMRC. On the item is an image of HMRC and Pancaek. Pancaek is laughing. The HMRC is melting. The artwork relates to the encasing of the HMRC in metal by Pancaek during the Mission of Many People.))
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