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[EuchreJack]

You really carried town hard at the end there Lidku even if it didn't work out. You were emitting townie energy by giving a ton of effort that also had purpose. I hope I can play a game with you in the future.

For example:
Even when you were told Jim was town, you were still uncomfortable and were giving thoughts and commentary on his posts still. The suspicion was clearly still there because your natural talent/instinct was telling you something was wrong.

No joke, I think everyone would call Lidku MVP this game. I mean, Jim won for his team, but Lidku absolutely did work there.

+1 to that.
Only reason town lost is because this was Lidku's first game on this forum.  A few of the technical issues hindered them (not knowing about the vote locking, not realizing how much Webby loves Godfathers).  Otherwise, yeah Jack & Jim would have lost.
...although, if everyone reads the scumchat, you'll clearly see that Jim actually lost until Blue blocked Jim.  Jim was going to kill Lidku & that Townclear, which would have likely lead to a three player ELO where Blue & Tric might be able to clear each other.  But then Jim's NK didn't go through, and we had this MLO.

Congrats Jim! We is the winners!
Totally claiming 50% of the credit, even though my contribution was no more than 25%.

[webadict]

Anyway, this was an experiment to decide if BYOR games are better for teaching Mafia. Personally, I think this is a much more exciting game format, and I think this shows that beginners can learn to enjoy it just as much as other Mafia type games. It even still had some battle of wits going on at the end. I think this was at least a partial success, and I'd be down to design more of these. They're not too difficult to make, and they make everyone feel a bit useful, which is really what I think is important.

Moderator Notes:
If I had to go through and change some things, my biggest concern was BluarianKnight's role, which was too powerful as Town. I'd probably drop the Roleblock to a 2-Shot, and call it a day. That way it can't endlessly be used to stall the game. My second biggest concern was Oliverz144's role, which could've used some tweaking. It did too much for what it was, even with its limitations. I think I'd probably re-design the role a bit so that there's something a bit more... Balancey? Maybe balance is an Ice Cream Vendor role? I'd probably do that, but as a 1-shot, with some sort of protective Auto.

For the Mafia, Jim's role was a bit weaker than intended, but he got maximum utilization out of the role! He killed through Knightwing's Auto and got Inspected. I guess he never really used the Redirection, though. Almost maximum utilization.

Knightwing's role could've been a bit different. I wanted to try a One-Shot Vig in the game. It's a bit silly, but it felt kinda fair.

[webadict]

EDIT: Also, how did notification-less Roleblocks feel? Did it feel too confusing?

My thought behind it is that it allows for less confirmation, like how I treat redirections/busses, meaning that a Town RBer can't simply confirm themselves by blocking someone each Night.

The thought is that Actions should be less confirmable by the person being Acted upon.

[EuchreJack]

I think all roles should have been weaker, personally. Like everyone gets a one shot, more like in Fallacy's tournament.

Overall, good job on designing roles that downright punished mechanical solving. I think you taught some valuable lessons to all of us.

I also think casting a veteran like Jim as mafia was a good way for all of us to learn.  Would suggest putting a veteran on the scum team again, to whatever degree that can be done without tipping off players to suspect all veterans as scum. Scum IC if scum team would otherwise be n00bs?

[Lenglon]

as a non-spoiled spectator, I'll just put out there that my personal suspect list was very, very wrong. well played.

[Roden]

You really carried town hard at the end there Lidku even if it didn't work out. You were emitting townie energy by giving a ton of effort that also had purpose. I hope I can play a game with you in the future.

For example:
Even when you were told Jim was town, you were still uncomfortable and were giving thoughts and commentary on his posts still. The suspicion was clearly still there because your natural talent/instinct was telling you something was wrong.

No joke, I think everyone would call Lidku MVP this game. I mean, Jim won for his team, but Lidku absolutely did work there.

Absolutely, the turnaround from Day 1 to Day 3 was nuts.

[Lidku]

That was a crazy ass game LOL

[Secretdorf]

... Blu   necro   again?
Come on guys necromancer can't be mafia everytime, I was just joking.

[TricMagic]

Non-notifying roleblocks just feel like a scum power to me. Mostly cause their is absolutely no way to confirm them.

[webadict]

I think all roles should have been weaker, personally. Like everyone gets a one shot, more like in Fallacy's tournament.

Overall, good job on designing roles that downright punished mechanical solving. I think you taught some valuable lessons to all of us.

I also think casting a veteran like Jim as mafia was a good way for all of us to learn.  Would suggest putting a veteran on the scum team again, to whatever degree that can be done without tipping off players to suspect all veterans as scum. Scum IC if scum team would otherwise be n00bs?

I thought about really weak roles, but it didn't seem as fun when I was thought-testing it. I think having some roles with just one-shot Action is fine (Like Knightwing), but I like people feeling like they can do a particular something in the game. Knightwing could kill and revive! That felt strong.

As for trying to break the game mechanically, I always warn you that you will be sorry for trying to mass claim.

Non-notifying roleblocks just feel like a scum power to me. Mostly cause their is absolutely no way to confirm them.

This was absolutely on purpose. I made EuchreJack's role sound Town and BluarianKnight's role sound scum. Roleblocks unintentionally are stronger as a Town tool than a scum tool, in that they normally notify the user and the usee that each are accounted for that Night.

If anything, take it as a lesson that I have and will continue to design Town roles that literally kill everyone! Not as punishment or anything, but because it's no fun if every scum role sounds like a scum role and Town roles sound like Town roles.

It also disencentivizes trying to break the game. If you can't confirm everyone's Action, you have to deduce based on the remaining clues. Yes, it is a good step trying to confirm as many people as possible, but if you can't solve the game that way, then utilize what you can!

Basically, it was something new that I thought was useful to test. Personally, it felt like a success story to me, but I was trying to see if it was too confusing to keep (Plus, the inherent using of certain Abilities (like X-shots) while blocked feels a bit unfair.) But I'll work around that next game.

[Knightwing64]

Bruhhhhhh



Lidku assuming that Jim couldn’t be mafia after he voted Jack was a bad move. Also, They exposed Jim in like 3 ways and then backed off after Jim acted angrish and gave baseless assumptions. Other then that, you played way better then me.


Tric? I actually thought he was third mafia. He ignored all the (obvious) evidence and voted Blue for no reason other then the fact that Jim said so. Not only that, but he DOUBLED down after Lidku gave even MORE evidence and then said “either way, blue dies tonight” which apparently nobody but me thought was extremely suspect.

Even before that, it got to the point where Tric was acting so obviously scummy that my last action before dying was to try to kill him.

Ughhhhhhh

This was a good game, but it got me so aggravated with how town was ignoring all evidence and just sheeping the mafia. Blue didn’t even defend themselves, Tric was more mafia then the actual mafia, and Lidku was too passive and backed off of Jim way too easily.

Now, all of the players I mentioned are pretty much better then me, but these moments just has me extremely annoyed.

It was a good game though. Fun playing

[Lidku]

Jim's strategic bullying and gaslighting, coupled with him having waaay more Mafia experience than me, made me doubt my conclusions in the end; even though I made multiple right calls against him. I 89% suspected him as Mafia. Even when I said I seemingly switched to not suspecting him, I still did.

[EuchreJack]

Bruhhhhhh



Lidku assuming that Jim couldn’t be mafia after he voted Jack was a bad move. Also, They exposed Jim in like 3 ways and then backed off after Jim acted angrish and gave baseless assumptions. Other then that, you played way better then me.


Tric? I actually thought he was third mafia. He ignored all the (obvious) evidence and voted Blue for no reason other then the fact that Jim said so. Not only that, but he DOUBLED down after Lidku gave even MORE evidence and then said “either way, blue dies tonight” which apparently nobody but me thought was extremely suspect.

Even before that, it got to the point where Tric was acting so obviously scummy that my last action before dying was to try to kill him.

Ughhhhhhh

This was a good game, but it got me so aggravated with how town was ignoring all evidence and just sheeping the mafia. Blue didn’t even defend themselves, Tric was more mafia then the actual mafia, and Lidku was too passive and backed off of Jim way too easily.

Now, all of the players I mentioned are pretty much better then me, but these moments just has me extremely annoyed.

It was a good game though. Fun playing

Point taken 

[BluarianKnight]

... Blu   necro   again?
Come on guys necromancer can't be mafia everytime, I was just joking.

the one game I am town, pff. I picked Necro hoping for mafia.

Also, serious apologies for dropping the ball end game.

[EuchreJack]

... Blu   necro   again?
Come on guys necromancer can't be mafia everytime, I was just joking.

the one game I am town, pff. I picked Necro hoping for mafia.

Also, serious apologies for dropping the ball end game.

What?
I thought you were always complaining about rolling Mafia and how you never get to play Town.