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[Lidku]

Sorry for quad-posting, but since editing isn't allowed, it'll have to do.

Also, I got a question for Jim Groovester.

You lied and said you redirected Oliverz144 to Maximum Spin.

So, who did what last night?

I redirected Oliverz144 to Maximum Spin.

Oliverz144 confirmed that by pointing out he used all his abilities on me on N1. If he was in fact redirected, he would have known who killed Maximum Spin on N1, by his own admission. His revealed abilities also line up with what he was saying. Do you have anything to answer for that anomaly?

On top of the questions I have quoted above, I'd like to additionally request that you reveal your role, since we're in Eliminate-or-Lose phase of the game.

Also, you previously mentioned that you redirected BluarianKnight to EuchreJack?

It is now Eliminate or Lose.  Votes placed cannot be removed.  Please be 100% sure before placing votes, or you may lose immediately.

Oh. Alright. An important note worth highlighting.

...At this point, it's Jack and probably Blue. The only other option is Jim here. Jack's been odd all game, so he's probably the vote for today. I'm also likeliest to die tonight given my bus would reflect the kill back onto the killer.

This is roughly where I'm at as well although I'd like to give the game a thorough go over before deciding anything.

And by thorough I mean I'm probably just going to read the game once and not spend too much time agonizing over it.

I redirected BluearianKnight to EuchreJack.

If that was honestly the true case, then Knightwing64 has an auto-ability that revives him once killed. BluarianKnight mentions that one of their abilities is tagged as Block. The Block would transfer to EuchreJack and then Knightwing64 would just be revived, culminating on the predication BluarianKnight mentioning they used their ability on Knightwing64 on N2.

Another lie from you Jim..

I'm starting to think your role has nothing to do with redirection after all... Unless you reveal it truly is.

[EuchreJack]

Well, the person above who thinks I'm both Doctor yet the most likely scum didn't ask my role, but I'll answer it anyways since I'm hopeful it will help.

I'm Tin Knight Galahad, from my forum avatar. My ability is to protect folks from the Night Kill, like a good little tin Knight.

As for Lidku's plan, I guess it comes down to whether I believe Lidku is Town. Mafia would LOVE to be protected from night kills.
It would certainly be convenient for Mafia to claim Cop and get a Town read on a Dead Townie.

[Lidku]

SORRY for quin-posting, but I'll like to bring up another point of evidential contention I have with with Jim Groovester.

All the deceased players so far have had these ability Tags: Copy (Roden), Trigger (Maximum Spin), Revive (Knightwing64), and Kill (Knightwing64)

None of these tags have to do with the action redirection.

Of the current alive players, TricMagic mentioned he has three (3) 1-use abilities. He also stated that he used up his redirect on EuchreJack. Not once did he mention use a redirection on you, Jim.

BluarianKnight has Block and a "beyond-the-veil" ability (an ability that lets them vote, even when dead) since they're a Necromancer. None of these abilities have to do with redirection.

EuchreJack has chosen a decidedly generic role, for a Mafia game that allows you to submit your own custom roles. He is a Doctor. It primarily deals only in Protection. Which has nothing to do with redirection.

I now heavily suspect Jim Groovester to be Mafia, in a team with Jim.

[Lidku]

Ninja'd

[Lidku]

I now heavily suspect Jim Groovester to be Mafia, in a team with Jim.

Sorry. I meant I heavily suspect Jim Groovester to be Mafia, in a team with Jack.

[Lidku]

Well, the person above who thinks I'm both Doctor yet the most likely scum didn't ask my role, but I'll answer it anyways since I'm hopeful it will help.

I'm Tin Knight Galahad, from my forum avatar. My ability is to protect folks from the Night Kill, like a good little tin Knight.

As for Lidku's plan, I guess it comes down to whether I believe Lidku is Town. Mafia would LOVE to be protected from night kills.
It would certainly be convenient for Mafia to claim Cop and get a Town read on a Dead Townie.

The only Town person with an ability to kill someone else was killed: Knightwing64. If I was Mafia, then I wouldn't worry about being killed, since I would know everyone that is non-Mafia that can kill, is already deceased. As of this moment, only the Mafia can now commit Kills.

My primary goal in is to see your truthfulness, regarding role the role you're claiming.

If I'm killed this coming Night, and you didn't protect me, but knew I had a role that could reveal alignment, you'd be confirmed as Mafia.

If you do use your ability on me, giving me a pyrrhic move in an attempt to out a Mafia, but you get targeted as you claim; it proves that you were in fact non-Mafia, and that the Mafia prioritized you because you have the ability to prevent kills.

[Lidku]

I'd also like to mention that I think, we (The Town), have the Mafia cornered here.

If BluarianKnight is telling the truth and they can in fact vote beyond-the-veil, then Mafia is not going to target them this Night, at risk of having a hanging counter against them.

They are not going to go for TricMagic, since he's low priority; in comparison of me revealing I can learn someone's alignment, and along with EuchreJack being able to Protect someone during the Night (if we are to believe EuchreJack is telling the truth).

Considering if we get the vote right here and take out one of the Mafia, then the loner will be all but outed.

Looking back at the thread so far, the Town has had consensus that Jack and Jim are likely on the same team.

[EuchreJack]

Since Lidku can't take back their vote, that means either Mafia has won, or Lidku is Mafia. I'm tired, so I guess I'll go to bed and see if the game is over in the morning.

I'm basically stuck joining any vote that isn't me, since I know I'm town and thus my lynch is game over for town. While I would like to vote Lidku, I don't have that luxury. I'll have to plot some connections, but Lidku has successfully stayed off everyone's radar, as far as I can tell. Frankly, I think I'm the only one to have ever suspected Lidku as Mafia, but I have been real life working a lot during this game.

[Lidku]

All of what you're saying is fair. It's pretty late at night IRL, so I'm not surprised you're about to go to sleep (along with general inactivity from everyone).

TricMagic, I suspect you the least out of everyone, but I got a question: You mentioned you used your 1-use Redirect action on EuchreJack? I know you were blocked by BluarianKnight, but who did you pivot your Redirection on EuchreJack toward initially, before finding out you were blocked? You never revealed so.

[Jim Groovester]

EuchreJack.

This was incredibly reckless of you to cast a vote when votes are permanent. If there is a single miscast vote by the town then the scum team can immediately win the game. If the town splits the vote between the scum team the scum team can immediately win the game. The only way the town makes it to Day 4 is if the three remaining town players unanimously lynch scum.

I think it's probably been enough time, though it could still happen, but the only way the game isn't immediately over is if there is at least one scum between you and EuchreJack. You could both be scum but that wouldn't make much sense.

You lied and said you redirected Oliverz144 to Maximum Spin.

I did not lie.

Stop saying this.

Oliverz144 confirmed that by pointing out he used all his abilities on me on N1. If he was in fact redirected, he would have known who killed Maximum Spin on N1, by his own admission. His revealed abilities also line up with what he was saying. Do you have anything to answer for that anomaly?

I'm taking great issue with you repeatedly saying stuff like this considering that I have been harping all game long about why relying on role results in this game type is a terrible idea.

The scum team having an ability that would make the night kill untrackable, or some other explanation, is not out of the norm for this game type and not even particularly unlikely. It is perfectly possible that both Oliverz144 and I told the truth regarding our Night 1 results.

Consider also how I claimed instead of just the content of what I claimed. I freely volunteered my claim before Oliverz144 claimed and I also encouraged people against treating it like I had caught him dead to rights committing the night kill. Consider why I would do these things if I were scum instead of saying nothing at all.

The only saving grace you have, is if Mafia really has a Ninja, which would raise you above suspicion. But we have no way of knowing that at the moment... until I use my alignment reveal this coming Night, that is.

You're aware of possibilities for why both Oliverz144's and my night actions can both happen but you're stubbornly asserting instead that I lied.

You are speaking out of both sides of your mouth here. This concerns me greatly and is making me reevaluate my read on you.

If that was honestly the true case, then Knightwing64 has an auto-ability that revives him once killed. BluarianKnight mentions that one of their abilities is tagged as Block. The Block would transfer to EuchreJack and then Knightwing64 would just be revived, culminating on the predication BluarianKnight mentioning they used their ability on Knightwing64 on N2.

Another lie from you Jim..

This one has a straightforward explanation.

Roleblocks are priority 3 compared to redirections' priority 4, so the roleblock happens first. I was trying to redirect the nightkill from one suspect to another.


More to come.

[Lidku]

Sorry to clutter up the thread, but I want to clear any evidence that I could be suspected Mafia.

Oliverz144 was Tracking and Watching me, as he had an ability that combined both. If I was Mafia and did the kill action against Maximum Spin, he would have known it was me.

Though a counter to this, could be that my theorized Mafia teammate could have done the kill action. The person(s) the Town collectively believes right now is Mafia, is Jim and Jack at the moment.

With Jack's slight non-subtle motions of me being Mafia (and him already being my prime suspect), this could levy a hypothetical team of me being in a team with Jim Groovester (Lidku + Jim Groovester).

That would mean Oliverz144 would be watching/tracking me for a kill; but he revealed on D2 that I was innocent/I was not targeted by anyone. Since he tracked me, and while HE didn't directly mention it, Oliverz144 knew that I used my Steal ability on Knightwing64 on N1.

If it was anything malicious, such as me murdering Maximum, he would have reported it to the Town the day after. If anything, he suspected me to be the attempted N1 kill, which is was his rationale of using all his abilities on me at once.

That posits that it would have to be Jim Groovester to have had committed the N1 kill, on the hypothetical thought-exercise of me being Mafia on a team with him.

We all know that Jim Groovester claims (with no substantiation at the moment, because he has yet to truly reveal his role and its abilities) that he used Redirection on Oliverz144. But that would be incorrect in the scenario in me being in a team with Jim, because one of the Mafia has to choose who-will-kill-who.

It'd have to be Jim Groovester to do the kill, as again, I was using my Night Action to steal from Knightwing64; and Oliverz144 was watching/tracking me. He would have immediately reported I killed someone on D2.

I've been reading the Mafiawiki, and at least one person of the Mafia team has to be chosen to do a kill action, from what I've learned. In the scenario of a Lidku+Jim team, we both could have not done our special role actions that aren't standard Mafia kill actions at the same time.

FAKEEDIT/NINJA'D (Jim Groovester has finally replied)..

This was incredibly reckless of you to cast a vote when votes are permanent. If there is a single miscast vote by the town then the scum team can immediately win the game. If the town splits the vote between the scum team the scum team can immediately win the game. The only way the town makes it to Day 4 is if the three remaining town players unanimously lynch scum.

I think it's probably been enough time, though it could still happen, but the only way the game isn't immediately over is if there is at least one scum between you and EuchreJack. You could both be scum but that wouldn't make much sense.

My apologizes. Admittedly, I posted and didn't see web's ruling on votes being permanent this Day until much later on.

I'm taking great issue with you repeatedly saying stuff like this considering that I have been harping all game long about why relying on role results in this game type is a terrible idea.

Given that you're way more experienced than me in Mafia, I'd have to defer some points of you being right here. But I don't entirely agree with role results in this particular game have no merit.

This one has a straightforward explanation.

Roleblocks are priority 3 compared to redirections' priority 4, so the roleblock happens first. I was trying to redirect the nightkill from one suspect to another.

I think my answer is pretty straightforward as well. BluarianKnight did not roleblock you directly, at all. They have stated to have targeted Tric on N1, then Knightwing64 on N2. If you did really haveRedirect, it would (I'm half-assuming here) still work, and transfered onto EuchreJack like you claimed it did; since again, BluarianKnight64 did not directly target you.

[Lidku]

Also, Jim Groovester, you have yet to reveal what your role and its subsequent ability(s).

Not only that, there still isn't evidence for your claim that you actually redirected Oliverz144 on N1 toward Maximum Spin. Before he died, Oliverz144 asserted 3 things toward you specifically:

1) That Mafia might a Ninja, which could be the reason, he surmised, on why he hypothetically didn't detect anything from you purportedly redirecting him.
           |
            ----> (Has yet to be revealed at all, hinging on this Night later on, I use my ability to find the alignment of one of the Mafia)

2) That you were lying.
            |
            -----> (What I'm leaning toward and what Oliverz144 leant toward as well)

3) That someone simultaneously redirected you, when you redirected Oliverz144.
              |
              ------> (This is negated by the fact that everyone that has died so far, does not have a Redirect ability listed, along with all the players who have currently revealed their role either; don't have Redirect, or can no longer use it (TricMagic, but he mentioned he redirected EuchreJack and not you).)

[Lidku]

This one has a straightforward explanation.

Roleblocks are priority 3 compared to redirections' priority 4, so the roleblock happens first. I was trying to redirect the nightkill from one suspect to another.

I think my answer is pretty straightforward as well. BluarianKnight did not roleblock you directly, at all. They have stated to have targeted Tric on N1, then Knightwing64 on N2. If you did really haveRedirect, it would (I'm half-assuming here) still work, and transfered onto EuchreJack like you claimed it did; since again, BluarianKnight64 did not directly target you.

Also to add on to this: You mentioning the priority orders is a self-strike against yourself. Redirect changes the target, in terms of a priority sequence; effects, I think, don't take hold until all actions and their priorities are fully processed.

Since Block is P3 and Redirect is P4, and you claim that you do actually have Redirect, you SHOULD have indirectly saved Knightwing64 from his Revive ability being Blocked; something that I already broached previously. Instead Knightwing64's Block by BluarianKnight remained and they were killed.

You bring up in defense that since Block was used, your Redirect was negated, but that only works if the Block was used directly against you. BluarianKnight has claimed to have only used Block on TricMagic and Knightwing64, who died on N2.

[Jim Groovester]

This one has a straightforward explanation.

Roleblocks are priority 3 compared to redirections' priority 4, so the roleblock happens first. I was trying to redirect the nightkill from one suspect to another.

I think my answer is pretty straightforward as well. BluarianKnight did not roleblock you directly, at all. They have stated to have targeted Tric on N1, then Knightwing64 on N2. If you did really haveRedirect, it would (I'm half-assuming here) still work, and transfered onto EuchreJack like you claimed it did; since again, BluarianKnight64 did not directly target you.

The roleblock would resolve before the redirection occurs. BK did not roleblock me, but I cannot redirect fast enough to stop BK from blocking Knightwing64.

Also, Jim Groovester, you have yet to reveal what your role and its subsequent ability(s).

I'm an An IC from the Old Beginner's Mafias. I can redirect. I also have a one shot that activates on my death where I can make one post with game related information.



You have worn out my patience for this topic. You have repetitively said your piece and I am not going to engage with you further on this topic.

You are missing the point of this game. Mafia is a social game. The mechanical aspects are important but are also uninteresting compared to the social aspects. It is more important to engage with other players and determine motive and alignment from interacting with them than it is focusing or obsessing over who did what during the night game. If your takeaway from this game is that it is very important to focus on roles and role results you will have learned a very poor lesson.

[Lidku]

That's fine. We'll see what the others think when they wake up from sleeping.