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[BluarianKnight]

@Blue: WHY did you roleblock Tric?

Honestly? end of Day 1, he was the person I suspected the most of doing a night kill.

Jim is also calling me out rightfully - I'll admit that I have been working completely on a false belief that JIM was the one being questioned and pointed at, not JACK. I haven't been putting in the effort I was the previous day, and I'd like to change that.

To fix that, I'm putting my vote into Oliverz144.

I'm dropping Tric as, on reflection, this sort of behavior is 100% something Tric does as town. Hell, I've used this sort of 'dig in heels' attitude to beat him as mafia - so I'm bumping him up to Neutral.

But Oliver? His behavior has been bugging me - and it should be called out.

Thinking it through I think Oliverz144 looks worst coming from the end of day 1. I don't think Knightwing64 hammers as scum here although I think I would've preferred the thread being open a little bit longer to engage with Roden before end of day.

Oliverz144's suspects were the two most popular non-Oliverz144 wagons at the time despite the contradiction of Roden and TricMagic voting each other and then later on reinvents his reads to hop on a popular bandwagon that also coincidentally saves himself. He swaps briefly over to BluarianKnight, I assume after Maximum Spin indicated he'd swap if Oliverz144 was willing, but Maximum Spin doesn't show up or didn't see it before Oliverz144 literally says whatever and votes Roden.

There's also that I respect Maximum Spin's reads a lot when he's willing to confidently take a stand on stuff like that and Maximum Spin read Oliverz144 as scum.

So, who did what last night?

I redirected Oliverz144 to Maximum Spin.

Jim calls out Oliver; his response is to vote back against him.

Ouhh... thisbis getting spicyy
jim grooveester
If that would be true, max would be alive.

Then going back on it, and claiming he was confused?

No, nvm, he wouldnt. My bad.
Tell me more about your redirection, jim. What does it do if somebody has 2 actions?

Oliver has shown he's capable, so this feels like a cop out.

Also - he's just.. not answering the question of what he did last night?

That needs an answer from me before I can unvote him.


Also - on the topic of Lidku..

I'm just going to vote BluarianKnight. If this vote against Blue catches on, and they get lynched, but it was discovered that they were actually Town; we'll know it is in fact TricMagic who was scum all along.

This doesn't seem like a good strategy?

This isn't 'I think it's BK', it's 'BK is a wagon and maybe if she's town then it's Tric' which is a fucking stretch. If you have a reason for me being scum, can you offer it?

I'm not scum at all. I'm regular Beginner Mafia Citizenry. I only revealed I had a copy ability because other people started revealing theirs, and I wanted to lament how bad Knightwing64's ability was.

Also - saying 'regular citizenry' just kinda bugs me. Maybe it's just my view, but saying 'I'm citizen/regular person!' is a beginner scum tell. He's not someone I'd vote right now, but he's leaning scum for me - at least until he can toss me an answer for why.


Tric- Did you get a confirmation on your action's success? Did you get any information?

I did block you - and got a success on it back from it. I suspect either that the action 'went through' but didn't work for you, or otherwise I was blocked from doing my block.

...Jack, what did you do last night that has you so cagey? I already know you didn't hit Max unless something else was going on. So why no claim?

Jack - What did you do last night?

Also, what's changed from 'ninja blue did a good job, pushing to null' to bumping me up to your vote?

I'll add more in a bit, but I wanna get this out.

[Knightwing64]

Olivers144

Eh, Jim is normally smart and I haven’t really sus’d him so I’ll give it a shot

[EuchreJack]

...Jack, what did you do last night that has you so cagey? I already know you didn't hit Max unless something else was going on. So why no claim?

Jack - What did you do last night?

Also, what's changed from 'ninja blue did a good job, pushing to null' to bumping me up to your vote?

I'll add more in a bit, but I wanna get this out.

I can respond in an hour.

To answer why I blocked him? I felt Oliver was maybe newbie town, Rodem was probably going to get targeted already, and Tric was my second pick for dangerous Mafia.

Tric wouldn't know he was blocked as much ability doesn't inform the blocked person.

This response was garbage. As Jim mentioned, Roden was already dead.
Mafia roleblocker also fucks with my plan.

I also disagree with the whole "Oliverz is a good player".  Oliverz is a terrible player that has apparently read up on mafia, and thus knows terms, but doesn't seem familiar with how to actually play a game of forum mafia.

Ninja Knightwing64: Ok, now we got some good voting!  I'd like to see Oliverz respond.

[Mamobo]

Vote Count
------------------------
Oliverz144 - 3 - Jim Groovester*, BluarianKnight*, Knightwing64*,
BluarianKnight - 2 - Lidku*, EuchreJack*,
Jim Groovester - 1 - Oliverz144*,
TricMagic - 1 - TricMagic*,
EuchreJack - 0 -
Knightwing64 - 0 -
Lidku - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 0 -

4 to Hammer. Day ends on June 24, 2022 at 22:00 CDT (5 hours and 59 minutes remaining.)

[Oliverz144]

Both BluarianKnight and EuchreJack are acting suspicious.

Fair regarding me. I'm refusing to answer questions, so that does look suspicious.
But...I CAN NOT tell you anything else. TODAY

In LYLO, I can probably reveal more, for whatever that is worth.

Dont wait for this until lylo. You are mafia!
euchreJack

[TricMagic]

Both BluarianKnight and EuchreJack are acting suspicious.

Fair regarding me. I'm refusing to answer questions, so that does look suspicious.
But...I CAN NOT tell you anything else. TODAY

In LYLO, I can probably reveal more, for whatever that is worth.

Dont wait for this until lylo. You are mafia!
euchreJack

Why put him in hammer range if you want the info Oliver?

[Oliverz144]

Why not today? We've been pretty active on the site in general today. Kinda suspect. What's your response toward TricMagic claiming you're Mafia along with BluarianKnight.

Your homework assignment is to go look at all the roles on MafiaWiki.
You will see several roles where the optimal play is to NOT claim.  That is what I'm doing.  Wish I could help you, but I need the WIFOM.
Why are you SO eager to know my role?

Tric is being Tric.  My head hurts to try to figure out the logical fallacies that led Tric to that conclusion.
I mean, Tric apparently KNOWS that he redirected me and KNOWS that I did not do the kill.  Yet I am suspected of being with Blue because Blue claims to have blocked Tric's redirect of my action onto a living player?

Hey, how come nobody has asked Oliverz144 what their action was?

Oliverz144

Ha! Knew this was gonna happen. Vote me for some random reason and stay there until eod. Worked yesterday, works today aswell!
I wanted to claim, actually, but... let me read the thread fully. im waiting for something specific, that i requested.

[Oliverz144]

EuchreJack please answer my questions.

Um, okay.

TricMagic

You rather like to play dangerously, huh. But note this, by either of our admissions, I didn't perform the kill last night. Either I redirected Jack to Oliver, or I was blocked.

Lynch all Liers is very much in effect. So I'm thunderdoming them. Ready for the lightning BlueKnight?

I DIDN'T DO THE KILL

SO I'M GOING TO DECLARE A THUNDERDOME BETWEEN ME AND BLUARIANKNIGHT

AND I'M GOING TO VOTE AGAINST MYSELF IN THE THUNDERDOME I DECLARED JUST NOW BETWEEN ME AND BLUARIANKNIGHT

THE BIGGEST BRAINIEST ONE HUNDRED AND FIVE IQ PLAYS RIGHT HERE

And Roleblock is very much a mafia ability.

Put simply, either I am lying, or Blue is lying. There isn't any chance of both of us telling the truth.

ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THIS TRICMAGIC

ARE YOU REALLY SURE

HOW MANY BYORS HAS TOWN LOST BECAUSE OF DUMB ASSUMPTIONS LIKE THIS

ARE YOU GOING TO TELL ME THAT IN A GAME WHERE EVERYBODY HAS A ROLE AND IN A GAME SERIES WHERE THE MODERATOR GENERATES ROLES WITH COUNTLESS EXCEPTIONS TO TRADITIONAL ABILITY USAGE THAT THE ONLY EXPLANATION FOR YOURS AND BLUARIANKNIGHT'S NIGHT ACTIONS HAS TO BE THAT ONE OF YOU IS SCUM

AND ARE YOU GOING TO TELL ME THAT YOU'RE WILLING TO STAKE THE OUTCOME OF THE GAME ON THIS

@Max: Is Knightwing scum? I never figured out how to use the secret decoder ring to detect Knightwing's alignment.

So far he seems like he's actually trying. Maybe not MUCH, but I'd definitely say the secret decoder ring isn't giving me any strong scum signal. That said, I'm not convinced of the continuing utility of that ring now that he knows the secret and can just stop doing it.

I have not read the rest of the thread yet.

I think that knightwing is town for this.
Mafia  wouldnt kill maximum if he townreads one of their scummers.
So far i think the team is tric/jack, with jim maybe somewhere in there

Given your reads I find it strange that you're voting me.

Also I don't see how a TricMagic/EuchreJack team makes sense given that TricMagic had it out for EuchreJack during Day 1.

To answer why I blocked him? I felt Oliver was maybe newbie town, Rodem was probably going to get targeted already, and Tric was my second pick for dangerous Mafia.

Tric wouldn't know he was blocked as much ability doesn't inform the blocked person.

This is strange; Oliverz144 was your end of day vote. Apparently you dropped that suspicion going into N1 for some reason.

Also Roden was dead going into N1 so it's weird that he was a potential target for you.



Reads:
Oliverz144 - scummy for the reasons I mentioned earlier in the day; also is proposing another contradictory scum team
BluarianKnight - Day 1 effort was fine but Day 2 has been lackluster; the few expressed opinions during Day 2 are strange given what BK expressed during D1
EuchreJack - bizarre reads that are picked up and then dropped just as quickly, as usual; generally it feels like he's a weaker, less present version of his normal self
Knightwing64 - still reading Knightwing64 as town; has yet to take a strong stand during Day 2
Lidku - I still think Lidku is more likely town than not but their Day 2 play is generally weak consisting mostly of taking cues from others
TricMagic - still my strongest town read but thunderdoming is fucking stupid

Jim's read on every player: their day 2 sucks

GREAT! THANK you for the spew.
I submitted balance as my role. Ha, ha!
I have 2 actions! Watch or track, AND  Weak heal, that confirmedly (explicitly stated ik role description) blocks the mafia nk the next night i target. So if i prot player 1 n1, he will be protected n2.
I watched lidku, as i suspected them to be the nk, and saved lidku (aswell LOL)
2 things: both my actions were successful
2nd thing: i got a "nobody visited your target" as feedback.
IF i would have been redirected, to max spin, i would have known who killed max.
So ergo there are 3 options:
Mafia has a ninja
Jim grooveester is lying
Somebody interferred with jims action.
÷=====
I think the second option is the likelier in my honest opinion.
Lets look what your thoughts are!

[Jim Groovester]

To fix that, I'm putting my vote into Oliverz144.

Alright, you're back onto Oliverz144, but why did you say during N1 you thought they were newbie town?

Also - he's just.. not answering the question of what he did last night?

WHY IS NOBODY LISTENING TO ME ABOUT WHY FOCUSING ON ROLES AND NIGHT RESULTS IS A BAD IDEA

I also disagree with the whole "Oliverz is a good player".  Oliverz is a terrible player that has apparently read up on mafia, and thus knows terms, but doesn't seem familiar with how to actually play a game of forum mafia.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Oliverz144 has said he's played mafia before, he's not a beginner. New to here but not the game in general.

Why put him in hammer range if you want the info Oliver?

But EuchreJack isn't in hammer range?

GREAT! THANK you for the spew.
I submitted balance as my role. Ha, ha!
I have 2 actions! Watch or track, AND  Weak heal, that confirmedly (explicitly stated ik role description) blocks the mafia nk the next night i target. So if i prot player 1 n1, he will be protected n2.
I watched lidku, as i suspected them to be the nk, and saved lidku (aswell LOL)
2 things: both my actions were successful
2nd thing: i got a "nobody visited your target" as feedback.
IF i would have been redirected, to max spin, i would have known who killed max.
So ergo there are 3 options:
Mafia has a ninja
Jim grooveester is lying
Somebody interferred with jims action.
÷=====
I think the second option is the likelier in my honest opinion.
Lets look what your thoughts are!

Options 1 and 3 are not even remotely unlikely in this game type.

[BluarianKnight]

jim having an aneuryism

1. Because they're acting so erratically that I felt that it had to be newbie town. After reviewing my previous reasons for voting them, as well as what they've done today, and the comments others have made, made me realize I was stupid.

2. Because he hadn't answered yet? I was curious.

[Oliverz144]

@Blue: WHY did you roleblock Tric?

Honestly? end of Day 1, he was the person I suspected the most of doing a night kill.

Jim is also calling me out rightfully - I'll admit that I have been working completely on a false belief that JIM was the one being questioned and pointed at, not JACK. I haven't been putting in the effort I was the previous day, and I'd like to change that.

To fix that, I'm putting my vote into Oliverz144.

I'm dropping Tric as, on reflection, this sort of behavior is 100% something Tric does as town. Hell, I've used this sort of 'dig in heels' attitude to beat him as mafia - so I'm bumping him up to Neutral.

But Oliver? His behavior has been bugging me - and it should be called out.

Thinking it through I think Oliverz144 looks worst coming from the end of day 1. I don't think Knightwing64 hammers as scum here although I think I would've preferred the thread being open a little bit longer to engage with Roden before end of day.

Oliverz144's suspects were the two most popular non-Oliverz144 wagons at the time despite the contradiction of Roden and TricMagic voting each other and then later on reinvents his reads to hop on a popular bandwagon that also coincidentally saves himself. He swaps briefly over to BluarianKnight, I assume after Maximum Spin indicated he'd swap if Oliverz144 was willing, but Maximum Spin doesn't show up or didn't see it before Oliverz144 literally says whatever and votes Roden.

There's also that I respect Maximum Spin's reads a lot when he's willing to confidently take a stand on stuff like that and Maximum Spin read Oliverz144 as scum.

So, who did what last night?

I redirected Oliverz144 to Maximum Spin.

Jim calls out Oliver; his response is to vote back against him.

Ouhh... thisbis getting spicyy
jim grooveester
If that would be true, max would be alive.

Then going back on it, and claiming he was confused?

No, nvm, he wouldnt. My bad.
Tell me more about your redirection, jim. What does it do if somebody has 2 actions?

Oliver has shown he's capable, so this feels like a cop out.

Also - he's just.. not answering the question of what he did last night?

That needs an answer from me before I can unvote him.


Also - on the topic of Lidku..

I'm just going to vote BluarianKnight. If this vote against Blue catches on, and they get lynched, but it was discovered that they were actually Town; we'll know it is in fact TricMagic who was scum all along.

This doesn't seem like a good strategy?

This isn't 'I think it's BK', it's 'BK is a wagon and maybe if she's town then it's Tric' which is a fucking stretch. If you have a reason for me being scum, can you offer it?

I'm not scum at all. I'm regular Beginner Mafia Citizenry. I only revealed I had a copy ability because other people started revealing theirs, and I wanted to lament how bad Knightwing64's ability was.

Also - saying 'regular citizenry' just kinda bugs me. Maybe it's just my view, but saying 'I'm citizen/regular person!' is a beginner scum tell. He's not someone I'd vote right now, but he's leaning scum for me - at least until he can toss me an answer for why.


Tric- Did you get a confirmation on your action's success? Did you get any information?

I did block you - and got a success on it back from it. I suspect either that the action 'went through' but didn't work for you, or otherwise I was blocked from doing my block.

...Jack, what did you do last night that has you so cagey? I already know you didn't hit Max unless something else was going on. So why no claim?

Jack - What did you do last night?

Also, what's changed from 'ninja blue did a good job, pushing to null' to bumping me up to your vote?

I'll add more in a bit, but I wanna get this out.

Look:
If im voted out today, and there is no wonder, you will go into lylo tomorrow, with no plan at all.
However, if i go into lylo, i will be the low hanging fruit (lhf), the lynchbait, i will be the mislim tomorrow: and we will lose. 
So you need to decide NOW:
EITHER YOU VOTE ME OUT TODAY, OR NEVER! THERE IS NO INBETWEEN, DONT LET ME GO INTO LYLO IF YOU ARE THINKING OF VOTING ME, YOU WILL BE MANIPULATED INTO VOTING ME AND I WONT HAVE A CHANCE

As for my reads, im torn apart.
Euchre has very bad day play today, and also had strange sayings yesterday, such as "im so bad usually, i stay alive until endgame, because my reads are bad and mafia doesnt fear me"
This is PREPARING for an excuse into the later days, on why he is still alive.
Jim had not That bad dayplay, actually pretty good, pointed out some good things (such as bk first scumreading me d1, thinking n1 that im a bad townie, and now voting me eod2 again, lol)
However there is that one action contradiction i already stated, and well.... usually no mech thunderdomes should be carried into lylo, thats what i learned...
However, of course, this is a byor,  and i pointed out two alternate explainations... i think he aint the lynch today, maybe??
King, well.... the great "i didnt act yet, i have a bad role" ... its not possible to prove nor deny that, and his dayplay today was pretty meh, so lets wait on what he will say and claim of his role tomorrow... i dont like that,  but its the best choice available.
Lidku: prob town, has some scum equity ("i copied kings role") but... i dont want to tinfoil into that, the game is hard enough
Tric... i had him as sr, JUST because he has scum equity with euchre as a team, AND because the 101 of mafia says, that you should ALWAYS lynch the d1 counterwagon (and no, thats not me, shh )) i dont think he should go... although redirection role is scummy.. whatever.
Blue had a big read flip flop, and many scumpaint him for that. BUT: only townies have mind changes, real mindchanges in their reads. Scum is always simulating. Thinking im not roleblock worth... its probably acceptable.

Ergo: lynch euchre, and go with a bunch of lhf including me into lylo...

===
P.s.: yes im thinking that our lynch today will hit town, sadly... sorry for that, but im not that strong of a believer  into our reads... especially not re: my reads

[Oliverz144]

...Jack, what did you do last night that has you so cagey? I already know you didn't hit Max unless something else was going on. So why no claim?

Jack - What did you do last night?

Also, what's changed from 'ninja blue did a good job, pushing to null' to bumping me up to your vote?

I'll add more in a bit, but I wanna get this out.

I can respond in an hour.

To answer why I blocked him? I felt Oliver was maybe newbie town, Rodem was probably going to get targeted already, and Tric was my second pick for dangerous Mafia.

Tric wouldn't know he was blocked as much ability doesn't inform the blocked person.

This response was garbage. As Jim mentioned, Roden was already dead.
Mafia roleblocker also fucks with my plan.

I also disagree with the whole "Oliverz is a good player".  Oliverz is a terrible player that has apparently read up on mafia, and thus knows terms, but doesn't seem familiar with how to actually play a game of forum mafia.

Ninja Knightwing64: Ok, now we got some good voting!  I'd like to see Oliverz respond.

Lol
Yes i suck. I know the theory but thats it.
I read and analysed great games, played even more myself, but my training yielded small results so far.
Whatever, atleast i have fun, most of the time... until im called an asshole ;^(

[Oliverz144]

Both BluarianKnight and EuchreJack are acting suspicious.

Fair regarding me. I'm refusing to answer questions, so that does look suspicious.
But...I CAN NOT tell you anything else. TODAY

In LYLO, I can probably reveal more, for whatever that is worth.

Dont wait for this until lylo. You are mafia!
euchreJack

Why put him in hammer range if you want the info Oliver?

i didnt know hes in hammer range.
Now i know im at l-1 myself, thanks to him. I will call it unforeseen karma

[EuchreJack]

Oliverz144, were your previous games in a different format perhaps?

You don't seem capable of properly quoting or linking.  For example, I'd prefer if you actually quoted what I said, rather than paraphrasing stuff I don't remember saying.

I'm not sure why I'm not just voting you myself.

[Lidku]

GREAT! THANK you for the spew.
I submitted balance as my role. Ha, ha!
I have 2 actions! Watch or track, AND  Weak heal, that confirmedly (explicitly stated ik role description) blocks the mafia nk the next night i target. So if i prot player 1 n1, he will be protected n2.
I watched lidku, as i suspected them to be the nk, and saved lidku (aswell LOL)
2 things: both my actions were successful
2nd thing: i got a "nobody visited your target" as feedback.
IF i would have been redirected, to max spin, i would have known who killed max.
So ergo there are 3 options:
Mafia has a ninja
Jim grooveester is lying
Somebody interferred with jims action.
÷=====
I think the second option is the likelier in my honest opinion.
Lets look what your thoughts are!

Given the fact of this detailed response and Oliver mentioning he saved me, makes me trust him even more and suspect him LEAST as being part of the Mafia.

I recommend everyone who is honestly not scum to reconsolidate their votes someplace else.