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[EuchreJack]

Let us see them sweet sweet scumchats!

[ToonyMan]

Maybe I didn't understand the Grand Game very well, but I figured if you (Toonyman) had just waited your turn on Day 3, you would have been a shoe-in.
I'm not sure how you'd get elected under that scenario, but it certainly seemed possible.

Webadict was forcing me as a D3 candidate because it would tell him if I was Onyx or not. I'm going to assume because he called me a "strong player". I literally have no way to resist without breaking trust with him, but I have to because I can't win otherwise. Knightwing was my other valid candidate, but Web scumread KW (one of the few that did), so I couldn't use KW as a candidate either without breaking trust with Web.

I'm fine with breaking trust because I have to to win, but then he has Jack who can make Web a double voter and Max who is a double voter. Onyx don't have much to compete with that.

If I sat quiet and did get a D3 nomination I was almost certainly not being elected.

[EuchreJack]

Did the scum team get any powers? Because if not, that IS a shit sandwich.

[EuchreJack]

So, my overall thoughts on the setup:

While normally I groan over the overabundance of power roles, in this setup we needed more.

Without the thrill and excitement of the Lynch & Night Kill, the players needed something else to talk about (regardless of alignment).

Personally, I think both Jade & Onyx needed someone with a 1-shot kill ability, that could especially be used to eliminate a nominee.
Yes, this means extra days.  But I think it would be worth it. 
The kill could also be used on someone who hadn't been nominated, but I wanted to emphasize that I think it should also be allowed against nominees.
It should also be a kill where the side who conducted it is hidden.

[Roden]

Oh wait, it actually was Toony after all?

Hector
Shorten

It's unfortunate that the Cabal got screwed over by inactivity, and that Egan got locked down so quickly. The set up itself was fun though.

[Egan_BW]

I'm blocking this subforum from my memory.

[EuchreJack]

I'm blocking this subforum from my memory.

Fair enough.
But I think the scum team got shafted in this particular game, so you did well with what you were given.

[Maximum Spin]

Haha, wow. At least I read ToonyMan right, the only read I was confident on at all by the time I left. I was being serious when I thought it was web and Toony, though, right up until web made that deal with me (and then I had no idea what to think). Glad it ended up working out. Sorry your replace-in ended up being totally superfluous, Hector!

And man, sorry to Egan for having that Bluarian luck, heh.

One last comment: I never had a double-vote for the election, just nominations. That was EuchreJack's misguess. Glad he did, though.

[Egan_BW]

I'm blocking this subforum from my memory.

Fair enough.
But I think the scum team got shafted in this particular game, so you did well with what you were given.

Coulda done something with D2, at least sow doubt with the fact that I was being mafiaread and could still vote. But I wasn't in the right emotional state to play just then. Good old play by post roleplay games at least don't go anywhere if I freak out for three days, you know.

[hector13]

Haha, wow. At least I read ToonyMan right, the only read I was confident on at all by the time I left. I was being serious when I thought it was web and Toony, though, right up until web made that deal with me (and then I had no idea what to think). Glad it ended up working out. Sorry your replace-in ended up being totally superfluous, Hector!

And man, sorry to Egan for having that Bluarian luck, heh.

One last comment: I never had a double-vote for the election, just nominations. That was EuchreJack's misguess. Glad he did, though.

Eh, as I mentioned in my first post I was still chewing over webadict’s fakeclaim and subsequent confession, but that was as a disinterested observer.

Ah well, all’s well that ends well. Probably a good thing I didn’t have to pay too much attention given my responsibilities, and I didn’t have to do much other than bother Jack you played well enough that I didn’t have to, can’t complain about that.

I'm blocking this subforum from my memory.

Fair enough.
But I think the scum team got shafted in this particular game, so you did well with what you were given.

Coulda done something with D2, at least sow doubt with the fact that I was being mafiaread and could still vote. But I wasn't in the right emotional state to play just then. Good old play by post roleplay games at least don't go anywhere if I freak out for three days, you know.

Mafia is very easy to take too seriously, particularly with some of the vitriol we condone on the board. It’s not for everyone, and even if you’re used to it, it can get to you. Don’t worry about it.

[FallacyofUrist]

ToonyMan twitched, then twitched again, looking at the dozing form of Egan_BW and the inattentive form of Knightwing64. After assessing the situation again, his eyes rolled up and he collapsed.

The Onyx Cabal (ToonyMan, Knightwing64, Egan_BW) have forfeited.

The Jade Court (everyone else) win!

There were no Sects.


Feels like this game crashed to a halt earlier than it should have.

While normally I groan over the overabundance of power roles, in this setup we needed more.

Funnily enough, half the players had power roles. The scum never used their two powers and the town weak-cop never claimed his results. I think the setup was more balanced than it looked, it's just that I assumed the scumteam would be more proactive. That didn't seem to happen.

Props to Toony for amazing Day 1 and Day 2 play though. The one thing he missed is the potential strategy of using his ability proactively and aggressively - it could be used any number of times, since it was just a passively available toggle that affected his vote's effect. The ability to vote against someone was more useful in its social effect than its practical effect, I think.

Spoiler: Setup (click to show/hide)

Jade Court:

Maximum Spin-> hector13 - The Prince’s Cousin
[Influence] Nomination Influence: Your vote for Nomination is counted twice at the end of the Day phase.

webadict - The Mourning Gardener
None

notquitethere - The Accomplished General
None

Jim Groovester - The Phoenix Song-Sage
[Direct] Sound of the Soul [target]: This ability must be used privately. At the end of the Day, you learn whether or not your target possesses an ability or they are a Sect member. Both them being a Sect member and them possessing an ability return the same, positive, result.

EuchreJack - The Manager of Ceremonies
[Influence] Medal Bestowal Ceremony [target]: This ability must be used in public. You grant your target a permanent extra normal Election vote immediately, to use as they wish. You may only use this ability once, and it must be on the third Day if so. Your target will be aware that they gained this vote.

Roden - The Bathhouse Architect
None

reina - The Withered Prophet
None

Onyx Cabal:

Knightwing64 - The Cunning Scribe
[Influence] Scar the Slate [target]: This ability must be used privately. Your target’s main vote is colored purple for the remainder of this Day. After the next time the vote is moved or placed, it cannot be removed from its position by that player until the next Day.

ToonyMan - The Skillful Debater
[Influence] Debate Against: You may optionally vote in red instead of blue. If you do so, you place a red-colored negative vote instead of your normal one, which counts against a player instead of for them in the vote count. This ability may be used during Nomination or Election.

Egan_BW - The Cheerful Fishmonger
None

[webadict]

Spoiler: Long-ass post (click to show/hide)

Ah man, sorry about boxing you in, Toony. I knew I had to push you as a Day 3 option specifically to test you the whole game, and to stop people from potentially nominating you earlier. You did look very Town on Day 1, but the push for Knightwing Day 2 stood out because Knightwing stood out to me (I wasn't about to get fooled again!) I definitely also felt like Egan might've been too scared or worried to post as scum, which is unfortunate because being outted scum in this game is actually it's own mind game since you can't die. The game isn't over until it's over!

I think a possible out was going with a Sect claim that said one of you or Egan/Knightwing needed to be nominated, and then tried to make the other choices look scummy in comparison, but that definitely would've tied you to a potentially bad game plan and ties you to a scumbuddy for the entire game. But a Sect play like that is probably more my style.

Also, thank Max for pushing you into the limelight, because he successfully read you as scum before I did, so I stole his read and worked out the entire team with it.

Knightwing being scumread was also an odd quirk of having just played against him as scum. I know that one is silly, KW, but you tend to make passive perception statements as Town that you weren't making here. It's a slight nuance, but a nuance all the same. You were much better with posting though!

As for the fakeclaim... Well, it was about that time I do stupid shit, I did warn you guys Honestly, I think you guys put too much stock in the act of lying, when sometimes the purpose of the lie is what really matters. And, even if I lie there, the worst case scenario should be: Don't vote for me. I lied because it would allow me to make a decision without having to justify it then. No one can argue against "I have to do this action or I lose." It saves debate time.

Personally, I don't mind doing the Town's dirty work for them because someone's gotta maneuver the pieces into place. Building a Towncore is delicate but satisfying work. Making a council of Townies is important, but I think more important was building a vote bloc of Townies.

Overall, Toony played well, Max played well, Euchre started fights with Townies and doubted his read of me but in the end made the right choice, Jim still scum read Townies but we managed to come to a satisfying answer as a team, Knightwing learned a bit more and didn't do bad as he managed to convince a couple Townies he was Town, NQT made a good opening move that allowed us to centralize around a Townie early and actually gave us a few good reads from it, Roden played well (even if the lurk thing waaaaas a bit silly, but can I really judge?), and reina actually played well but I am sad because they appear to have disappeared. Egan, you get a special section because you probably got some nerves from playing as scum, but know that you didn't do poorly because you convinced Max you weren't scum, which isn't an easy feat. I think you should give yourself another shot because you're still learning to play. Losing kinda sucks, and being scum is hard, and losing at something hard feels bad. But, you didn't do as bad as you think. Give it another try some time, and if you really want to revel in a win, use your friendliness against people. Make alliances, and then, at the perfect moment, backstab them. I think that is a good style for you, since you would likely get Townies to join you. Sure, it's buddying, but... We sorta allow that here, and it's something we're bad at dealing with, so use it against us.

[webadict]

Oh, and balance-wise... This game has some downsides for scum. I think I would give the scum the ability to disrupt the Election. I think a good ability would be allowing them to make the final Election a 1v1 (removing a candidate so that it becomes scum v Town) if they want. This should be an innate scum ability, like the Mafiakill, since it's a good way to remove a candidate the Town can rally behind and not care about the rest (and allowing them the choice to use it makes it very WIFOMy on why a Town-looking player wasn't removed). Additionally, Sects seem to be good in terms of allowing scum (or normally less Town players) onto the council in the first place. Having groups with competing needs feels genuinely difficult to play around, but also helps disrupt the Town from fully committing to a single player. This game not having Sects did make it feel a bit easier for Town.

My two cents.

[notquitethere]

Can't say I didn't warn you guys:

He has no idea who the good or bad guys are so would not be best placed among the electorate

I got totally taken in by Toony. I voted Knightwing as a sort of test to see who else would jump on that wagon as I assumed Toony was town but wasn't sure about KW. The fact no one else did made it look better for Knightwing, though objectively I had no reason to think him town.

My main contribution was just being authentically town so that people would have confidence in me as a candidate.

[notquitethere]

Spoiler: Analysis of analysis (click to show/hide)

Funny that all three scum were next to each other in this nonsense chart I made:



The chart was just for my own amusement, there was no intended scum or town hunting value.

Some Analysis/Speculation

There are three Onyx Cabal members and they have a chat to co-ordinate... so we might expect some amount of co-ordination. They've got these two strategies:

A. Back one single Onyx Cabal member for nomination
B. Back two or three members and see who sticks for town

Strategy A has the downside of appearing too transparent. Probably scum aren't bold enough to do this. If they have done this, probably one Onyx votes for another, who self-votes, while the third Onyx lays low.

Strategy B makes it harder for town to divine the patterns of association... but also relies completely on luck as to whether any town will vote for them. If they're doing this, then they must hope to get scum on the council on day two or three. Some of them are probably self-voting if they're doing this strat.

It's possible the Onyx have some abilities that make one of these strategies seem more viable to them.

Looking at the votes as they currently stand, if Strategy A, then scum is Jim and either EuchreJack or Egan_BW, plus someone laying low (one of reina, Knightwing, or Max).

If it's Strategy B, then scum could be anywhere, but might hope that people will vote for them and so will be self-voting, or are waiting to see a wagon they can join onto their scum mate. And so are most likely in Jim/Max/Reina/Knightwing (but anyone else could be laying low and voting town for now)

All to say, hence my reticence of Jim!

I was completely wrong here, the scum strategy was to lay low and pocket town on Day. All this ended up doing was make me think there must be scum in Roden/Reina when there was not.

Could all five be Jade? If Onyx were in the sequence where would they be?

The answer was "appended on one end", which makes sense.