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Author Topic: Angel Team - Chiaroscuro 2 | Design Phase T6  (Read 23531 times)

NUKE9.13

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Re: Angel Team - Chiaroscuro 2 | Design Phase T2
« Reply #150 on: May 06, 2022, 06:24:22 am »

I would like to encourage you to move towards a consensus. I'd ideally like to be able to update tomorrow (European time), though I won't resort to a coinflip until the day after that.
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TricMagic

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Re: Angel Team - Chiaroscuro 2 | Design Phase T2
« Reply #151 on: May 06, 2022, 10:07:02 am »

Solar Prism
Light bends. Upon entering the water, it is refracted, and hitting the air it diffuses. Eclipses are known, and do occur. So by taking the light which hits the world and condensing it through a summoning medium, we can create a wall of light infused with good. By using forge water and sand to create icy glass crystals(around 1 inch in diameter), these can then by spread  the spell cast on them, summoning a gentle aurora of colors which beams upward into the skies above. While it loses it's potency around 12 feet up, and can't stop projectiles or magic, it will infuse all who pass it with sunlight, a torch within the dark, a candle in the storm. It should be noted, these crystals do need replenishing as they slowly melt, but they can be created in sufficient numbers. The spell itself is a basic summoning spell cast through water and the sky, or in this case it's frozen form of ice, with glass for durability so it doesn't melt immediately. As the it weakens, the light dims, but so long as it's replenished regularly it should make for a safe base camp. And it's light soothes the minds of our cultists, though evil beings feel something is wrong with it due to it's nature. This is purely psychological rather than magical, it's very pretty and literally radiates good.


Summoning sunlight through crystals made of glass/ice. It's very obvious, but also very direct. And sand and water is very cheap.
Meanwhile Muu just radiates auroras everywhere as a beacon of hope and fear to our enemies, since the summon medium is water. Though she can literally just make the gate herself, the medium is mostly for our cultists.
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Kashyyk

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Re: Angel Team - Chiaroscuro 2 | Design Phase T2
« Reply #152 on: May 06, 2022, 10:21:42 am »

So, let's try and resolve this tie. My opinions on each of the leading proposals:

Bottled Sunlight and Breath of Muu both give us morale boosts. However, Sunlight also offers heals and anti-undead whilst Breath gives morale damage and some tactical bonus (from vision control), most useful against the Rats.

Drakegulls open up new avenues as Light Cav: Scouting, Skirmishing and Cavalry Charges. The power of skirmishing has been demonstrated, and Scouting will let us make better strategic decisions, and Cavalry Charges are a scary prospect unless you're a heavy infantryman in a pike phalanx.

So, I like the synergy of Bottled Sunlight and Drakegulls, as it gives us a lot of general boosts in different ways and weakens their undead units, which I think are bigger threats than the rats. Breath of Muu is good, and I wouldn't be upset if we did it, but I think it overlaps in places with Bottled Sunlight and Drakegulls.

Special mention goes to Arms of the Deep, a wonderful "Screw those guys" spell, which should be hella scary (although I've already expressed my thoughts on Rats vs Skeletons), and the various Fortification/Servant upgrade bits that are also useful, but require other designs to see their best. Defences do not help us if we have to abandon our walls to attack lest we get skirmishes to death by the Vampire. We need either our own skirmishers to force them to attack us, or a way to nullify their own Night Raids.

I like Breath of Muu and Arms of the Deep, but I think we have more pressing issues.
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TricMagic

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Re: Angel Team - Chiaroscuro 2 | Design Phase T2
« Reply #153 on: May 06, 2022, 10:45:38 am »

Breath of Muu is a long range spell we can deploy long before they reach us, being sight denial to evil/morale damage. Bottles are a lot closer in, and does anti-undead, healing, morale boost/debuff.

From a number of things, BoM both gives Muu a spell and does a bit less. Even if bottles rely on natural good mutation.

Drakegulls are daylight raiders, perfectly visible on the steppe. They don't have night vision either. The Steppe does not have any cover. See a fundamental issue?

Sea Servants does multiple things, using the forge/wealth token for equipment, and fixing their minds so they are far less clumsy and slow, and can work on their own as a result. So we get fortifications which can stop/reduce night raiding, help us prepare the field, and make it easier to flatten those dam rats without losing all our chaff to death by a hundred cuts. If we also revise them to give them some regen so they don't bleed out from such cuts, we'd have a very strong combat unit that will serve us all the way into the lategame. Fortifications are huge, as seen in the castles of the previous game they can stop pushes. But we never actually experimented in their use on the field of battle. A lot of sea servants working in harmony can quickly dig up a trench at the very least. And from those defenses we can attack or support them with Ymis.

Quote from: Dropbox
Bottled Sunlight: (5) Kashyyk, m1895, Happerry, Failbird, evilcherry
- Use Wealth Token: (4) Kashyyk, m1895, Happerry, Failbird
Drakegulls (Majorly Monstrous): (4) Kashyyk, evilcherry, Secretdorf, Madman
- Use Wealth Token: (4) Kashyyk, evilcherry, Secretdorf, Madman
Muu's Mercy: (0)
[High-Effort] The Shipwrecked vTM: ()
-Use Wealth Token- Plots and Courses: ()
Liquid Light Elemental: ()
Breath of Muu: (4) Happerry, m1895 , Tricmagic, Secretdorf
Barricade Coral: (1)
Arms of the Deep: (1) Failbird,
The Horrors Below: (1) Madman
Sea Servants Part 2: Mental Boogaloo: (1) TricMagic
-Use Wealth Token: (1) TricMagic
« Last Edit: May 06, 2022, 10:47:41 am by TricMagic »
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Kashyyk

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Re: Angel Team - Chiaroscuro 2 | Design Phase T2
« Reply #154 on: May 06, 2022, 11:42:01 am »

I'm not sure how long range Breath of Muu would be, as it is literally described as making fog from the casters breath, I would hesitate to suggest that it's further than one can yeet a bottle-on-a-string.

Muu herself would absolutely do well with it, but we don't have to design a non-Common spell for her as Magic Missile scales on Caster Strength.

Drakegulls are not necessarily limited to daylight raiding, even if Sea Gulls have terrible night vision, due to their larger eyes. Even if they are, the added height will allow riders to see the Demon army before their foot troops see ours. Also, if they see our Drakegulls approaching, are they going to immediately drop everything and go into battle positions every time? Then we just repeatedly fake them out to slow them down. If they send a group to fight us, we can kite them then crush them piecemeal. The speed advantage lets us control the engagement.

All the things the Sea Servant design offers are good, but are handicapped unless we can control the engagement. We need a way to force them to assault our walls, which we currently don't have.
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TricMagic

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Re: Angel Team - Chiaroscuro 2 | Design Phase T2
« Reply #155 on: May 06, 2022, 12:00:35 pm »

One thing to note. The Sea Servant Design is a combination piece of two revisions scaled up. The Mind/reflexes, and the tools/fortifications. While we may have no way to force them to assault us on the steppe, the Fjords are a bit different. And for all that we have no way to force them, walls and trenches give us cover on the empty steppe. Perhaps most important though? Being able to set up a safe camp at night. That's all part of the revision idea for fortifications, the idea to improve the sea servant's motor skills was another's.

... Honestly, the design would go well with any of them. Better defense is simple, yet effective. I should also note, in the other game you could not send your forces past a castle, so if we set up in a place they have to pass... Well, that's what makes it useful in the Fjords. I kinda want to improve their combat ability, which happens to build in well with their original intent as laborers. Combine that with the tools for fortification work, and that can be leveraged for defense as well as better offense.

Another design option would be a new Ymis shield type that solves the issues of that revision. Though such would also likely need better casters. The main concern of spells right now is if they will end up Uncommon.

I won't deny the usefulness of raiding. But I also don't think it will be anywhere near as effective as what this vampire does to us in night raids.
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EuchreJack

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Re: Angel Team - Chiaroscuro 2 | Design Phase T2
« Reply #156 on: May 06, 2022, 12:03:58 pm »

Vote Drakegulls

NUKE9.13

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Re: Angel Team - Chiaroscuro 2 | Design Phase T2
« Reply #157 on: May 06, 2022, 12:09:42 pm »

Vote Drakegulls
Drakegulls have been lynched. It is now the night phase. Wait, wrong genre.

(PS, you get two votes)
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TricMagic

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Re: Angel Team - Chiaroscuro 2 | Design Phase T2
« Reply #158 on: May 06, 2022, 12:13:52 pm »



Quote from: Dropbox
Bottled Sunlight: (5) Kashyyk, m1895, Happerry, Failbird, evilcherry
- Use Wealth Token: (4) Kashyyk, m1895, Happerry, Failbird
Drakegulls (Majorly Monstrous): (4) Kashyyk, evilcherry, Secretdorf, Madman,
- Use Wealth Token: (4) Kashyyk, evilcherry, Secretdorf, Madman
Muu's Mercy: (0)
[High-Effort] The Shipwrecked vTM: ()
-Use Wealth Token- Plots and Courses: ()
Liquid Light Elemental: ()
Breath of Muu: (3) Happerry, m1895 , Secretdorf
Barricade Coral: (1)
Arms of the Deep: (1) Failbird,
The Horrors Below: (1) Madman
Sea Servants Part 2: Mental Boogaloo: (1) TricMagic
-Use Wealth Token: (1) TricMagic
[/quote]

Might as well call it I guess. Send in your PM votes.
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Angel Team - Chiaroscuro 2 | Design Phase T2
« Reply #159 on: May 06, 2022, 12:29:41 pm »

Quote from: Dropbox
Bottled Sunlight: (5) Kashyyk, m1895, Happerry, Failbird, evilcherry
- Use Wealth Token: (4) Kashyyk, m1895, Happerry, Failbird
Drakegulls (Majorly Monstrous): (5) Kashyyk, evilcherry, Secretdorf, Madman, EuchreJack
- Use Wealth Token: (4) Kashyyk, evilcherry, Secretdorf, Madman
Muu's Mercy: (0)
[High-Effort] The Shipwrecked vTM: ()
-Use Wealth Token- Plots and Courses: ()
Liquid Light Elemental: ()
Breath of Muu: (3) Happerry, m1895 , Secretdorf
Barricade Coral: ()
Arms of the Deep: (1) Failbird,
The Horrors Below: (1) Madman
Sea Servants Part 2: Mental Boogaloo: (1) TricMagic
-Use Wealth Token: (1) TricMagic
Added in Jack's vote (while editing the votebox yourself is preferred, if you're on your phone it's okay to vote that way). Also fixed the Coral's total.

I will still give folks more time to debate- but if there's no movement in the next 13 hours or so I'll update. (I could also update earlier if there's a shift towards the leading options, but don't feel pressured to move your vote just to move things along)
« Last Edit: May 06, 2022, 12:32:01 pm by NUKE9.13 »
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m1895

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Re: Angel Team - Chiaroscuro 2 | Design Phase T2
« Reply #160 on: May 06, 2022, 01:49:21 pm »

Quote from: Dropbox
Bottled Sunlight: (5) Kashyyk, m1895, Happerry, Failbird, evilcherry
- Use Wealth Token: (4) Kashyyk, m1895, Happerry, Failbird
Drakegulls (Majorly Monstrous): (6) Kashyyk, evilcherry, Secretdorf, Madman, EuchreJack, m1895
- Use Wealth Token: (4) Kashyyk, evilcherry, Secretdorf, Madman
Muu's Mercy: (0)
[High-Effort] The Shipwrecked vTM: ()
-Use Wealth Token- Plots and Courses: ()
Liquid Light Elemental: ()
Breath of Muu: (2) Happerry, Secretdorf
Barricade Coral: ()
Arms of the Deep: (1) Failbird,
The Horrors Below: (1) Madman
Sea Servants Part 2: Mental Boogaloo: (1) TricMagic
-Use Wealth Token: (1) TricMagic
Fiiiiiiiiine
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Failbird105

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Re: Angel Team - Chiaroscuro 2 | Design Phase T2
« Reply #161 on: May 06, 2022, 01:54:11 pm »

Quote from: Dropbox
Bottled Sunlight: (5) Kashyyk, m1895, Happerry, Failbird, evilcherry
- Use Wealth Token: (4) Kashyyk, m1895, Happerry, Failbird
Drakegulls (Majorly Monstrous): (7) Kashyyk, evilcherry, Secretdorf, Madman, EuchreJack, m1895, Failbird
- Use Wealth Token: (5) Kashyyk, evilcherry, Secretdorf, Madman, Failbird
Muu's Mercy: (0)
[High-Effort] The Shipwrecked vTM: ()
-Use Wealth Token- Plots and Courses: ()
Liquid Light Elemental: ()
Breath of Muu: (2) Happerry, Secretdorf
Barricade Coral: ()
Arms of the Deep: ()
The Horrors Below: (1) Madman
Sea Servants Part 2: Mental Boogaloo: (1) TricMagic
-Use Wealth Token: (1) TricMagic

If it helps, I'm not really into it either, but it seems like there's not going to be any turning the tide.
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Angel Team - Chiaroscuro 2 | Design Phase T2
« Reply #162 on: May 06, 2022, 03:41:07 pm »

Angel Team: Design Phase T2
TURNTURNTURN
Quote from: Bottled Sunlight
The age old association of "Good equals Light", has a basis in fact. The forces of Good have always been at their strongest under the midday Sun, whilst the Servants of Evil skulk in the Darkness. It is only now that the connection has been made so explicit.

Within each glass bottle is a yellow-white liquid, that emits light like a torch when disturbed. This Light is soothing to Good-aligned individuals, as it is indeed true Sunlight, captured using a silvered mirror array, infused with Good and stored in the liquid. These effects are muted however, until the bottle is opened.

On contact with air the liquid Light shines even brighter, imitating daylight in the local area. All that the Light touches feel the warm embrace of Good, great for our cultists who can enjoy the morale benefits, whislt the Servants of Evil cower away from the Holy Light.

If the liquid is to touch an individual, they will receive an extra strong dose of this Good energy, quickly healing wounds (and potentially gaining minor mutations). The effects are more devastating on our undead opposition however. To facilitate this, each bottle comes with a sturdy string, that can be used to attach the bottle to a pole or backpack for ease of carrying, or it can be loosened and hurled for extra range.
Quote from: Bottled Sunlight Wealth Token
The process of trapping and stabilising the Sunlight requires a complex arrangement of Mirrors and that need to be regularly adjusted to maintain the right levels of focus and brightness in our stormy weather. Additional funding will allow for back up mirrors, more complex machinery to control them, and will free up extra cultists to attend the apparatus.
Bottled Sunlight: Normal: (3+3)=6: Above Average
When your rival styles himself the Death of Suns, and consorts with beasts that skulk in the dark, perhaps the sun really is your ally.

Bottling sunlight is not as difficult as it sounds- especially not when using the right gear. While Tendril Village itself is a... sub-optimal place for harvesting it, there are other islands which receive more (that is, any) sunlight that you have access to, so production is secured.
There are many ways of using the end product. A sealed bottle has some utility as a light source, though it is not really any better than torches. Opening the bottle to the air magnifies the effect considerably, all-but turning night into day in the immediate surroundings, though the effects do not last incredibly long- the liquid sunlight boils away within five minutes. A canny cultist made a device to split the difference; a diffuser that mimics a very bright lantern in intensity, reducing the rate of consumption such that one bottle lasts about an hour. This will allow a number to be used to light camps, without burning through supplies too quickly.
Direct application of liquid light heals your cultists, but also produces mild pain- the intensity of Good corrodes their mortal flesh slightly, though it heals it at the same time. A dash on a small cut will heal it up quickly and without a mess, but treating bigger injuries will frequently leave behind scales, rubbery blue flesh, or even small wriggly tentacles. Severe, life-threatening injuries cannot always be treated using Bottled Sunlight, and even when they can be, they leave the patient severely deformed in mind and body.
For those not attuned to Good like your cultists, the healing effect is either minor or non-existent (while mutations may still occur). For those attuned to Evil, the pain of contact is much worse, leaving burn-like injuries where the liquid made contact (though no mutations take place). For beings who are reliant on Evil to function, the effects are likely to be destructive- the bones of Nar-Carok's skeletal minions will dissolve into ash on contact, and Nar-Carok himself would definitely not enjoy the experience.
As for the most complex part of the project... after extensive R&D, you managed to tie a string to the bottle. Good job. It allows the bottle to be hurled a little further, though not Magic Missile range.

Bottled Sunlight will improve camp security, provide battlefield healing of a sort, and serve as a more effective weapon against Evil beings than a spear. It is Uncommon equipment, meaning approximately 1/5th of your forces have access to them.



Quote from: Drakegulls (Majorly Monstrous)
Decrepit manuscripts suggest that birds and lizards are the nativised descendents of mutations on the same ancient species. How accurate that is waits to be seen, but considering how vicious some sea gulls can be...

The drakegull is a heavily mutated sea gull, large enough for a man to ride. It is now too big to fly, and is required to balance on its webbed, clawed feet and the tips of its wings for terrestrial locomotion. It can still glide however, be it from cliffs, walls or any other high places we can reach. Being mutated from excessive Good-energy, few candidates survive the procedure and their new forms can be a little off-putting. The beak now splits in three places, with serrated edges and a prehensile tentacle tongue. Mismatched eyes adorn the head, and in places across the body it's feathers feathers either fused into scales or become small writhing tentacles. The tips of the wings and the webbed feet now have wicked talons to help it move quickly over broken terrain. Despite all this a Drakegull is calm unless agitated, and will bond with its rider, sharing an inseperable understanding.

It's four limbs give it an impressive turn of speed, allowing it to quickly outsprint a running man, and its sharp beak and claws will make quick work of any cultists it can catch. More importantly, it is able to maintain a quick pace over leagues of travel. This allows us to deploy patrols of mounted cultists as scouts and skirmishers, although the light weight compared to a similarly sized horse means it doesn't have as much power on the charge, making them much better served as light Cavalry mounts.
Quote from: Drakegull Wealth Token
Only a small subset of wild Sea Gulls are viable for the mutation process, as one iof any nunber of factors regarding size, temperament, genetic stability, etc can disqualify a specimen. With additional funding, we can rear our own Sea Gulls, and breed them for the required traits, ensuring the specially bred Gulls are more receptive to the heavy mutation they must endure, allowing us to focus on the results over the survivability of the procedure.
Drakegulls (Majorly Monstrous): Hard: (3+2)-1=4: Below Average
Mine.

Take a gull, fill it with Good, watch it swell and warp into a fearsome monstrosity. While the methodology leans more on brute force than intricacy, the use of carefully bred gulls allows for a reasonable success rate. The end result is bigger than a horse, though not as heavy or sturdy. Though it is by no means slow, it will be outpaced by a fast horse, though most horses can't glide as well as a Drakegull.
A Drakegull will bond with a cultist, allowing them to ride the beasts into battle. The rider's use of a spear is somewhat redundant given the natural weapons of the Drakegull, but a riderless Drakegull is liable to wander off looking for food, so they certainly serve a purpose.

One minor issue with the Drakegull is its appetite. Maintaining their heavily mutated form takes many calories, which results in two drawbacks: firstly, it slows their progress over long distances, as they must either carry packs of food (weighing them down) or spend considerable periods foraging; secondly, it means that a Drakegull will sometimes stop to feast on a slain enemy, rather than continue to attack.

Drakegulls provide a unique light-cavalry option, with increased mobility in areas with vertical manoeuvring. They are Uncommon, unit size ~20.



It is now the Revision Phase. You have ONE revision, that may be split into two Emergency Fixes.



Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Tokens (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Map (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: May 07, 2022, 06:47:20 am by NUKE9.13 »
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m1895

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Re: Angel Team - Chiaroscuro 2 | Revision Phase T0
« Reply #163 on: May 06, 2022, 03:55:42 pm »

Servant Motor Skills
The Sea Servants were a great success yes, but their clumsiness, while expected, does limit their capabilities.
Now that Muu has cut her figurative teeth on the Sea Servants, she's set her sights on refining the process. While by the end the Sea Servants may not match regular humans, they should have the manual dexterity to handle more skilled tasks (just don't ask them to crochet you a doily) and more effectively utilize their strength. Those Thrice-blessed Servants who get to serve in Muu's immediate presence can display automata-level precision, without the rigidity of such constructs.
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TricMagic

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Re: Angel Team - Chiaroscuro 2 | Revision Phase T2
« Reply #164 on: May 06, 2022, 03:57:05 pm »

Sunlight Bolt
Bottled Sunlight provides a readymade catalyst, just channel mana through it, and the resultant magic missile is much faster. Some might say the speed of light, but it's more a bolt that has all the same properties. Of course use of this spell will use up bits of the stored sunlight, but one can get many such bolts out of one bottle.

The required magic missile revision.

Gadfly's Teachings
The Gadfly is given a crash course in speech by our god, so why not spread the word? Through a variant of the empathy hexes we worked on, our cultists can open up the hearts of those who listen, and if they have a bit of good inside, they will ponder on their words for a long time. Combined with proper oratory training, our polytheizing should see an increase in effectiveness. With hope, they will spread the Good word of Muu and good in general, that helping one another is it's own reward.


There's the motor skill revision. I might suggest waiting for the fortification design we'd hopefully do next turn, since that does have some synergy. Maybe regen to heal cuts?
« Last Edit: May 06, 2022, 07:20:59 pm by TricMagic »
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