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Author Topic: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support  (Read 130338 times)

Strongpoint

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2070 on: February 07, 2023, 04:01:40 am »

Are you sure your not the one losing the argument Red Diamond?

in other news I just spoke to some russian friends who live in singapore and dubai respectively and they both said the same thing; the russian invasion has made the cost of business for russians go up everywhere in everything. One of them tried to get health insurance but had providers ask for a significant premium or a signed statement indicating they acknowledged the invasion of Ukraine was an illegal act of aggression. As they frequently return to Russian and such a statement could get them thrown in prison they opted to instead pay thousands of dollars more for health insurance. The other one tried setting up a business and again, found that things which took his partners a few dollarydoos to do, took him thousands, because anyone who does anything with regulation, compliance or insurance is deathly scared of accidentally working with a Russian
:D
Hey man there's no need to be happy about that as not all Russians are Putin loving morons, especially not ones that don't live in Russia.

Note that those Russians value ability to return home more than saying some truth making it rather irrelevant if they support Putin or not. They also aren't poor people.

Also note that, quite likely,  those people pay taxes fueling Russian economy and them having extra expenses is a good thing.

So yeah, there is a reason to be happy hearing such news.
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They ought to be pitied! They are already on a course for self-destruction! They do not need help from us. We need to redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities!

Starver

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2071 on: February 07, 2023, 04:18:55 am »

Stop responding to his arguments. If you don't feed him he will get bored and go away.
On the whole, I agree, but I just want to suggest...

Moving on. There will be a "new international center to enable the prosecution of war crimes committed by Russia during its war in Ukraine", European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen promised. 
https://nltimes.nl/2023/02/02/european-office-gather-proof-war-crimes-ukraine-will-set-hague I hope this means that we don't have to wait 20 - 40 years for any kind of successful investigations and trials.

Fortunately the Russians will take absolutely no notice of it.
...that (mainly because of that "Fortunately") Red Diamond should perhaps ask to be renamed as Red Star and openly  embrace the whole ideological package rather than trying to preach their own peculiar choice of gospel more ambiguously.

Right now, I'm fairly sure RD is too far 'gone' to ever back down from their troll-or-tricked type of 'truth'. The bits I definitely know to be wrong pursuade me that I can safely ignore the rest of the screed. Though I read it anyway, as a courtesy, to be still left underwhelmed.

And I'm sure RD has interesting things to say about other things in the forum. Can't bring to mind what (without looking into it) but it wouldn't be unknown for an apparent monomaniac to have interesting ideas to put in the Suggestions threads, or have an eclectic mix of views on some recent TV show of a rather more fantastical nature, so long as it doesn't become carbon-copy propoganda.
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hector13

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2072 on: February 07, 2023, 04:21:23 am »

I would also like to say that apparently yesterdays legal fictions have become todays constitutional realities.
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Strongpoint

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2073 on: February 07, 2023, 04:53:35 am »

My usual answer to that bullshit of "Yanukovich was removed illegally" is quoting 5th article of the Ukrainian constitution

"The people are the bearers of sovereignty and the only source of power in Ukraine. The people exercise power directly and through bodies of state power and bodies of local self-government."

The only source of power went on the streets and told a guy to GTFO, by ignoring it he broke a fundamental part of the constitution, period.


Of course, people who view government as something sacred (like Russians) can't understand this concept.
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jipehog

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2074 on: February 07, 2023, 05:54:23 am »

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Russia is regarded as revisionist state. I am suggesting an hypothetical scenario, in which Asia eclipse the west. Asking if in such a world, the righteous voices here that are from the west would be playing by China's rules, or seek to advance their own interest by any means? or how likely is some sort of Trump to rise to challenge?

Btw in past, the British unhappy with their trade balance in the east, started smuggling opium into China creating millions of addicts and when China forced British to destroy their stash of illegal drugs in China, outraged Britis went to war with China and forced on them extensive surrender conditions, in what China regard as the beginning of the century of humiliation.

Quote
A naval base does make it considerably easier than it would otherwise be (as in impossible), but still the fact remains said troops are still trapped within Ukrainian territory without any means of reinforcement and supply.  I point out that it is strange the Ukrainians made no attempt to resist despite a considerable strategic advantage.  The Russian green men appear to have taken the whole place without any kind of a fight.

It is not strange at all.  The Ukrainian army of 2014 was not ready for any kind of resistance, it wasn't anywhere close to being a combat-ready force nor it expected that there will be any need for combat. It also had no idea whose orders to follow because of the ongoing political crisis.

True. iirc they were in the midst of doing the cutting cost by reducing army size 'professional army' bid. Interestingly the little they had was stationed on the west border with Europe, presumably because Ukraine --who at the time didn't have even a border with Russia-- couldn't comprehend getting raped in their rear by their Russian "brethren".

Also one shouldn't forget the fog of war, at the time there was a lot of uncertainty about what goes on and Russian intentions (that why Russian fake narrative was so effective and disruptive) and Russia's military build up on their border. There is transcript of Ukraine's security council iirc (can't find atm) which plainly speaks about their army inability to do anything and fear of further escalation. And finally that Russia was able to effectively secure the peninsula in a week, like I said very well planed and executed.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2023, 12:01:04 pm by jipehog »
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EuchreJack

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2075 on: February 07, 2023, 09:19:08 am »

...still no idea what you're talking about.

MaxTheFox

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2076 on: February 07, 2023, 11:03:40 am »

...still no idea what you're talking about.
I think he is either Chinese or really likes China (Xiaboo).
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bloop_bleep

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2077 on: February 07, 2023, 02:37:16 pm »

I mean, I would play according to my principles which inform what I think is right.

I don't think they're a Xiaboo necessarily, just making a point about might makes right that sort of misses.
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Grim Portent

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2078 on: February 07, 2023, 03:04:07 pm »

He's asking if we're siding with NATO because NATO is the dominant power, and therefore dominant viewpoint from a certain perspective, of the world, and would switch sides if we percieved the other to be stronger, specifically in the hypothetical event of China eclipsing the Western powers.

It's not a sensible question to be honest, because I imagine most of us haven't picked a side based on strength anyway, but rather ideals that are more commonly protected by Western powers than others.
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jipehog

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2079 on: February 07, 2023, 04:03:46 pm »

Truth is relative
I mean, I would play according to my principles which inform what I think is right.

We all think we right, the question is what are you going to do about it.

If China eclipse USA successfully challenging its privileged position in the global word order, reaping the benefits and becoming more influential in your life (e.g. digital dictatorship). Would you advocate playing by [their] international rules or seek to advance your own interest by any means? and what position do you think your country as whole might take?

This is also rough barebones of Putin's narrative. inb4 the outrage, narrative just is, it doesn't have to be right.
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Egan_BW

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Il Palazzo

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2081 on: February 07, 2023, 04:43:33 pm »

Truth is relative.
No.
While it's hard to argue that an objective reality exists, one would have to be living under a rock not to see that humans are terrible at agreeing what it is.
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Quarque

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2082 on: February 07, 2023, 04:55:27 pm »

You remind me of Vlad Vexler, who argues that the aim of Russian propaganda is not so much to convince you of an ideology, but to convince you that nothing is true.

Explained in detail in "the postmodern hell of Russian propaganda".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j6Vg7yLx54

Again I wonder, would you have sided with Hitler if his empire would have been dominant today? That's where this line of reasoning takes you..
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hector13

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2083 on: February 07, 2023, 05:25:22 pm »

Truth is relative.
No.
While it's hard to argue that an objective reality exists, one would have to be living under a rock not to see that humans are terrible at agreeing what it is.

That doesn’t mean truth is relative, it just means people are in varying degrees of denial regarding it.
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Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

the way your fingertips plant meaningless soliloquies makes me think you are the true evil among us.

Starver

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2084 on: February 07, 2023, 07:07:47 pm »

It's interpretation that's relative. Always relative. The facts are always those things that are true, but interpretations involve a (sometimes selective) subset of facts along with whatever non-facts are also handy to masquerade as the missing bits of the vista of information currently being stared at...
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