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[Lord Shonus]

Wagner is trying very hard to be the Waffen-SS - an allegedly elite separate military organization that isn't part of the chain of command.

They are succeeding in one very significant way - they're very close to the same level of incompetence* that most Waffen-SS units showed.





*Yes, incompetence. Despite a formidable reputation, SS units usually fared quite a bit poorer on the battlefield than similarly equipped units from the other branches. What good results they had were more because Hitler liked them and got them better (or at least more) equipment.

[EuchreJack]

Wagner is trying very hard to be the Waffen-SS - an allegedly elite separate military organization that isn't part of the chain of command.

They are succeeding in one very significant way - they're very close to the same level of incompetence* that most Waffen-SS units showed.





*Yes, incompetence. Despite a formidable reputation, SS units usually fared quite a bit poorer on the battlefield than similarly equipped units from the other branches. What good results they had were more because Hitler liked them and got them better (or at least more) equipment.

They have similar origins: Both are civilian murderers with military equipment and support from the Leader.

They probably have similar objectives, unfortunately.

[Starver]

The usual chain of events when you send criminals to fight and murder (a.k.a. colonization), is that the criminals either become legit or get killed off by those that went legit (in both the source country and the target country).

It happens because the more dangerous the military special expedition is, the better the criminals become at being organized, and "organized crime" hates "crime".

https://discworldquotes.tumblr.com/post/150983136815/one-of-the-patricians-greatest-contributions-to

(If only. In an imperfect world, I don't see that as being as bad as what it can otherwise be. But Putin aint a Vetinari. In some ways somewhere between Lord Winder and Lord Snapcase, but with shades of Olaf Quimby II that I hope eventually will come back to bite him.)

[EuchreJack]

Putin isn't good enough to be compared to any of the characters in Terry Pratchett's Discworld series. Those folks have to be interesting enough to survive and thrive on the Discworld. Putin's just another Hitler/Stalin retread. I sincerely hope he's mostly forgotten in Twenty years...

[Strongpoint]

Putin isn't good enough to be compared to any of the characters in Terry Pratchett's Discworld series. Those folks have to be interesting enough to survive and thrive on the Discworld. Putin's just another Hitler/Stalin retread. I sincerely hope he's mostly forgotten in Twenty years...

I doubt the forgotten part.

Scenario 1) A minor Russian Defeat (which will leave still leave a large country named Russia in one form or another), Russians will use him as a scapegoat for all crimes... before bringing him to the rank of their saints a few decades later.

Scenario 2) Major Russian collapse, which will turn Russia in an area of a bloody civil war... Putin will be remembered as the guy who caused that.

Scenario 3) Russia will somehow win and be able to conquer Ukraine. It will cause a genocide of the Holocaust scale securing a major place in history.   

Scenario 4) Russia will start a nuclear war. This will keep Putin in the history books of whatever civilization that will come out of the war.

[King Zultan]

I also doubt Putin will be forgotten any time soon.

Wagner is trying very hard to be the Waffen-SS

But do they kill each other off as much as the SS did?

[martinuzz]

Well, they do go out of their way to retrieve deserters through prisoner exchange deals with Ukraine, just so they can smash in their face with a sledgehammer until they dead.

[Lord Shonus]

Putin isn't good enough to be compared to any of the characters in Terry Pratchett's Discworld series. Those folks have to be interesting enough to survive and thrive on the Discworld. Putin's just another Hitler/Stalin retread. I sincerely hope he's mostly forgotten in Twenty years...

I doubt the forgotten part.

Scenario 1) A minor Russian Defeat (which will leave still leave a large country named Russia in one form or another), Russians will use him as a scapegoat for all crimes... before bringing him to the rank of their saints a few decades later.

Scenario 2) Major Russian collapse, which will turn Russia in an area of a bloody civil war... Putin will be remembered as the guy who caused that.

Scenario 3) Russia will somehow win and be able to conquer Ukraine. It will cause a genocide of the Holocaust scale securing a major place in history.   

Scenario 4) Russia will start a nuclear war. This will keep Putin in the history books of whatever civilization that will come out of the war.

Scenario 5) A humiliated Russia develops a strong anarchist movement, which takes over the government. Then proceeds to aggressively tame all sectors of the economy to rebuild military might - rebuilding a far more capable army to avenge their defeat a generation from now. Putin becomes the plaster saint who was "betrayed" by "elites" in the highest halls of power, who stabbed Glorious Mother Russia in the back.

This is the one that keeps me up at night sometimes. It may look kind of familiar.

[Duuvian]

Do you mean anarchist in the sense of disruptive groups that creates a window for political upheaving, or specifically anarchist in the sense of being anti-authority as a principle?

If the latter TBH I don't see Secenario 5 as a likely outcome. If the former, maybe, depending on who consolidates power. Particularly if it's one of the ones wanking to Stalinism (minus the communism).

[MaxTheFox]

Anarchists won't do that tbh. Nor do they have any chance of winning if there is a civil war.

[Lord Shonus]

That was a strange autocorrect that I didn't catch - I typed that on mobile.


It should read "strong revanchist" movement.

[Strongpoint]

https://twitter.com/olex_scherba/status/1616343842684563456

Those people individuals are so sure that they are immune to any justice

[Loud Whispers]

Wagner is trying very hard to be the Waffen-SS - an allegedly elite separate military organization that isn't part of the chain of command.

They are succeeding in one very significant way - they're very close to the same level of incompetence* that most Waffen-SS units showed.

*Yes, incompetence. Despite a formidable reputation, SS units usually fared quite a bit poorer on the battlefield than similarly equipped units from the other branches. What good results they had were more because Hitler liked them and got them better (or at least more) equipment.

Similar story with the Kadyvorites. It's easy to appear formidable and strong when your opposition has thus far consisted of journalists shooting at you with cameras. But the moment the kadyvorites encountered Ukrainian soldiers, eh, not so invincible anymore

[anewaname]

They effectively are immune to justice because the Russian courts will not turn on them and any non-Russian courts that convict them "in absentia" won't be able to extradite them. Hopefully some enterprising Russians will kidnap him for a bounty.

[King Zultan]

But trials and kidnapping are a lot of work why not save time and just shoot him?