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[Starver]

AND a standing army.

Do you mean the 414th Tank Battalion? (Germany had tanks with not enough crews, the Netherlands had crews but not enough tanks, so they merged their resources...)

Otherwise, no, there is no EU Standing Army. Often suggested (by 'Good Europeans') and frequently derided (by the Euroskeptics) but never actually implemented. The 'core six' (the Benelux nations plus France, Italy and West Germany) might have formed up, under some plans, but it never happened.

There's a NATOesque inter-force cooperation and coordinating thing, of course, where it can be distinguished from normal NATO business (e.g. any joint excercise involving Sweden/Finland, up till now at least... And I'm sure Ireland participates at least occasionally, and of course the US would need to be absent) but no soldiers who are not really already in their own (or adopted) nation's standing army, however close their interoperability with soldiers from a different corner of the Union.

[EuchreJack]

Oh hey, now the 414th Tank Battalion of German Tanks and Netherlands Crews have a potential future base in Ukraine! It all works out!
...well, to be honest I was more talking about the shared technical data.  Ukraine as a EU member would be in a better position to acquire and manufacture EU equipment, instead of having to work with old Russian equipment.

[hector13]

That would require them having the materials, infrastructure, and facilities to produce it, as well as the bodies to work the factory, and that’s before Russian missiles blow them to oblivion anyway.

[Lord Shonus]

The primary thing keeping Ukraine from operating first-line NATO stuff is training. You need crews capable of operating the equipment, and organic units to maintain it in the field beyond what the crew can do.

That's why so much of the aid has been Soviet-era gear that the Ukrainians are already fully trained on, or very simple systems - a Javelin or Stinger is easy to use and needs little maintenance, a M177 howitzer isn't that much different from a D-30, etc.

From a strictly material sense, the US has something like 4000 modern MBTs parked in the desert. If Ukraine could make practical use of them, they'd already be getting loaded on a boat.

[Strongpoint]

From a strictly material sense, the US has something like 4000 modern MBTs parked in the desert. If Ukraine could make practical use of them, they'd already be getting loaded on a boat.

Citing its sources in NATO, the German Press Agency reported that alliance members have informally agreed not to supply the weapons to Ukraine, fearing Russia could see the delivery of Western tanks and combat aircraft as entering the war and take retaliatory measures, German newspaper Die Zeit reported.

And I suspect that it is very true.

[Lord Shonus]

That sounds very suspect. Soviet-era tanks have already been supplied, and the only thing holding up a shipment of Leopard 2 tanks was Spain needing German permission to resell them.

As for the US specifically, the only thing holding up a shipment of extremely capable US combat drones is an automatic security review - the internal paperwork wasn't filled out correctly.


Besides this, almost everything short of bona-fide tanks and aircraft have been sent. APCs, MLRS systems, extremely good artillery, world-class man-portable anti-tank and anti-air missiles, shipkillers, etc. There's no material difference in the level of "provocation" such systems provide.

The one common denominator in the systems that have not been sent (tanks, aircraft, big SAMs) is that they all take a great deal of training, logistical support, and service knowledge to operate. Those are not trivial concerns.

[brewer bob]

As for the US specifically, the only thing holding up a shipment of extremely capable US combat drones is an automatic security review - the internal paperwork wasn't filled out correctly.

Wasn't there also the issue of the US being afraid that Russians might get their hands on the drones and the tech within?

[Lord Shonus]

That's the paperwork in question. Anything given to somebody else has to go through a "what are the risks of technology transfer" procedure, and that wasn't done.

So far, risks of tech transfer have not been a major concern. A lot of the stuff already given is pretty close on the sensitivity scale.

[brewer bob]

Ah, got it.

[Strongpoint]

Russian missile hit a shopping mall with 1000+ people inside. On Monday, in a broad daylight, exactly when people are shopping. Rescue operation is ongoing, the number of victims will be high...

What is the point of this blatant, senseless terrorism? Do they really expect that it can make us surrender?

[Lord Shonus]

What the news stories aren't making clear to those outside Ukraine that don't check a map is that this was a city far from the front, and thus there is no possible military value to the strike. Meaning that this is nothing but a pointless terror strike, with no possible legitimate target.

[heydude6]

My good-faith assumption is that they assumed "missile strikes active shopping mall" is already damning enough. I imagine only the most vile of Putinists trying to find a justification for Russia to do this. I don't see any malicious reason to exclude that info. Not any that makes sense at least.

[nenjin]

One would think, with how things are going, they would save that munition for somewhere that has actual military value....

Hard to know what it means, other than the obvious (that whoever authorized it is a monster.) A sign of confidence, desperation or just evil? Or that Russian military hierarchy is just so badly disorganized that this happened.

[brewer bob]

A sign of confidence, desperation or just evil?

If there exists an evil in this world, it is Putin and his lackeys.

I can't really think of anything else to say about the missile strike and other atrocities.

[MaxTheFox]

I am about two or three steps away from thinking Putin is the Antichrist.