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[bloop_bleep]

Well, I do feel that the mere use of the term fails to indicate anything definite about the ideology. For one, the term has veered more into the mainstream, and it's important to remember a term can have widely varying connotations to different audiences. The term "cultural Marxism" is so vague and ambiguous without further clarification that I'm not even sure what they meant to say...

For them it could just represent a veering away from traditional customs and practices. That's a common point of lamentation for a lot of conservative groups, even not extreme ones.

[Strongpoint]

Among other domestic Ukrainian news, the Ukrainian parliament will vote for the ratification of the Istanbul Convention tomorrow.

I expect a glorious shitstorm in social networks no matter what the result of the vote will be. Many people will forget about the war and switch their attention to "more important" problems like mentions of "gender" and "gender identity" in this convention.

[King Zultan]

Isn't that what Russia wants, to make everyone stop caring about the war so they can keep doing whatever they want without repercussions.

[Strongpoint]

Isn't that what Russia wants, to make everyone stop caring about the war so they can keep doing whatever they want without repercussions.

Kinda. But you must understand the realities of war. If you think that the whole Ukrainian nation united to repel the invader and...

It isn't how it works. There are a lot of people who don't really care and hope to wait it out. There are scumbags who look for ways to profit from the war. There are traitors.

And internal political games and power struggles didn't stop. Not at all

[heydude6]

Among other domestic Ukrainian news, the Ukrainian parliament will vote for the ratification of the Istanbul Convention tomorrow.

Just read the Wikipedia article on that and my god, it's like that thing was designed to piss people off! It's one of the most far-left documents I've ever seen!

And that's all I'll say about it because this isn't Europol. All I will say is that Ukraine should have post-boned their decision on this till after the war when national unity isn't a matter of national security.

[hector13]

Isn’t that the violence against woman thing? Why is saying violence against women is bad and should be criminalsed controversial?

[Strongpoint]

Among other domestic Ukrainian news, the Ukrainian parliament will vote for the ratification of the Istanbul Convention tomorrow.

Just read the Wikipedia article on that and my god, it's like that thing was designed to piss people off! It's one of the most far-left documents I've ever seen!

And that's all I'll say about it because this isn't Europol. All I will say is that Ukraine should have post-boned their decision on this till after the war when national unity isn't a matter of national security.

Yeah, as an anti-theist, I may enjoy how they freak out about the definition of gender and this convention brings a lot of good things but it isn't the time for such steps.

Then again, we entered the war with the most unprofessional and populist parliament ever so I don't expect sound political decisions from them. Thankfully, our generals are actually competent.

(For the record: I think that the "Gender is a social construct" is a quite dumb reality-denying idea and would prefer to not have it in the Law. Not as reality-denying as religions and I don't care that much if someone pushes it but still... Gender ROLES are a social construct but they are still influenced by our anatomy. If we say that gender is a social construct, then society can change someone's gender, literally make someone trans and it is not how transgender works.  But it is not the place to discuss it. If someone really wants to argue with me on this topic I may do so in another thread)

hector13
The problem is the presence of the "gender" (the Ukrainian language doesn't even have gender\sex distinction, they are literally adding a new word by transliteration the English one) and "gender identity". Our churches\conservatives are literally saying "remove those and we can't support this convention more."

[bloop_bleep]

From what I've seen opposition is mostly more empty conservative rage mongering. There's mention of the application of the provisions being irrespective to sexual orientation, and provisions mandating education against stereotyping the roles of women, as well as the mentioned definition of gender as a social construct. The sort of things often spun into AGAINST TRADITION. It's a good point that there is no linguistic distinction between sex and gender in the Ukrainian language which could lead to confusion.

[heydude6]

Isn’t that the violence against woman thing? Why is saying violence against women is bad and should be criminalsed controversial?

It’s already bad and it’s already criminalized. The document is more of an expansion to existing domestic violence laws, and it takes things in an extreme far-left direction.

As Strongpoint mentioned, the bill goes out of its way to define gender and it uses the “gender is a social construct” definition, but that isn’t the only thing in there that might rub people the wrong way.

The problem is this, Ukraine is not a progressive country. Race relations are still stuck in the 80s. This bill is not going to be accepted by the Ukrainian people and when it gets rejected, bad actors will use this to argue that Ukrainians are bigots (true) and Europe should not dirty itself by helping them out (let’s just be complicit in genocide instead). Tankees are enough trouble as it is.

If it somehow does pass, then Ukrainians will accuse the European government of blackmailing Ukraine into signing it and then faith in the government at this crucial time will be damaged.

Regardless, it’s gonna hurt the war effort.

EDIT: Ninjaed

[bloop_bleep]

Eh, I would say Ukraine has the potential to be far more progressive than you think, but kicking up a political storm at this juncture seems suboptimal.

[Strongpoint]

The problem is this, Ukraine is not a progressive country. Race relations are still stuck in the 80s.

I can agree that the type of racism that comes from uneducated violent losers is not uncommon but compared to the 80s of the US... No, not really. You also should understand that black-skinned and Asian people are quite exotic in Ukraine, especially outside of large cities.

Sure, there are more problems with Romani and North Caucasian people but when it goes like "I dislike ethnic group X, ethnic group X usually looks like this, I dislike people that look like this," it (usually) isn't true racism but an ethnic conflict and\or xenophobia.

This bill is not going to be accepted by the Ukrainian people and when it gets rejected

If I'd have to bet, I'd say that it is 2 to 1 that it will be ratified tomorrow.

[MaxTheFox]

snip

I disagree with this, though I generally agree that it should be left for after the war.

[Strongpoint]

snip

I disagree with this, though I generally agree that it should be left for after the war.

I would be very surprised if you didn't.

Anyway, if you are in a mood to discuss Sex-Gender difference, gender, gender roles, transgender, etc - feel free to call me to whatever thread in which it will be an on-topic discussion.

[Strongpoint]

If I'd have to bet, I'd say that it is 2 to 1 that it will be ratified tomorrow.

And it is ratified. I should go and enjoy the storm on social networks. It would be such a huge topic in peacetime but few people seem to actually care now. Priorities have been shifted.

_________
Among other news, there are yet to be confirmed reports that the Russian garrison on the Snake island got a very fiery morning

[King Zultan]

Seems like a weird thing to be worrying about while the country is being bombed.