Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[ToonyMan]

I copied Roden last night and targeted 4mask to hopefully ensure 4mask would flip. If Roden did something else like inspect or track I would also get the results of that. When I copied Roden last night I didn't receive anything except that my action worked.

NQT or Roden is mafia, but not both.

If a 4mask/NQT team wants to win this, they need to argue that Roden was the one that made 4mask kill Jim, unfortunately in their planning last night they decided to scapegoat Tric, which doesn't work.

NQT claims they tracked 4mask when they really should have tracked Roden instead. This isn't because of a lapse of judgement, but because they needed to back up 4mask's claim that they were unwillingly hypnotised. Notice how NQT needed to talk about there being an "evil presence".

The weird part is, why did mafia not kill Roden? Roden was going to shoot 4mask or NQT for sure, but they let Roden live to kill Jim? Is this why NQT didn't die either?

Max is always town. You have to argue it's Roden/Tric or 4mask/NQT.

I have more reason to believe Roden and Tric.

Look at just today, Roden is claiming a shot that didn't kill and Tric is making Phoenix Wright posts about how I'm a liar and mafia. Meanwhile 4mask and NQT came in smooth as clockwork with their claims and cases. Total chaos vs total order.

[notquitethere]

Bit of a weird point there Toony. You have to imagine your favoured scum team is smooth and competent enough to be able to write a series of claim posts, but also incompetent enough to shoot entirely the wrong people. It doesn't make sense. I know you're wrong here,  but I can't even see how you hope to explain your wrong ideas when you can't make the night actions stack up.

Pfp, more later

[ToonyMan]

NQT, your opening D3 post is extremely odd.

You spend a bunch of D2 shading Roden and that we can't trust a vig claim, but then vote Tric instead of Roden when only a single kill happens N2? You should be all over Roden instead of just jostling them.

I don't think your behavior makes sense.

When D3 started I knew Max and Tric were town and that 4mask was mafia, but I wasn't sure if 4mask was with NQT or Roden. Your opening post cinched it though, so thank you.

[notquitethere]

Again that's weird from you. I made perfectly clear in my opening post that

1. I still distrusted Roden
But:
2. From the facts as I knew them, Tric was the common denominator on the most likely scum teams.

What's not to get about that?

Anyway, things have changed. Since you're apparently incapable of following my thread of argument I'll make my current thinking super clear in my next post.

[ToonyMan]

NQT, NQT, NQT.

You've stated you're extremely suspicious of Roden being a mafia vig. You know yourself from your "track" results that 4mask killed Jim and that scum was involved in some way. You heavily suspect Tric is the one that made 4mask kill Jim, yes?

Then what did Roden do last night? There was no second kill and mafia!Roden always fires, let alone town!Roden. This would allow Roden to "confirm" he's town if another townie were to die, and it gets another townie dead.

Mind you, I copied Roden last night as a Priority 0 ability so if Roden did something else this would also be getting applied to 4mask.

[Mamobo]

Vote Count
------------------------
TricMagic - 2 - 4maskwolf*, notquitethere*,
4maskwolf - 1 - Maximum Spin*,
Maximum Spin - 0 -
notquitethere - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 3 - Roden, ToonyMan, TricMagic*,

4 to Hammer. Day ends on April 04, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~52 hours remaining).

[Maximum Spin]

NQT: Supposedly you believe that ToonyMan and 4maskwolf are both town. If so, you must presumably believe that they have genuinely exchanged an item that penetrates protects, specifically, between them. Do you believe that this item was actually a red herring, or that someone else has a secret, unmentioned protect ability? Are you softclaiming protection alongside your ridiculous "bad vibes smelling tracker" idea?

[webadict]

Vote Count
------------------------
TricMagic - 2 - 4maskwolf*, notquitethere*,
4maskwolf - 1 - Maximum Spin*,
ToonyMan - 1 - TricMagic*,
Maximum Spin - 0 -
notquitethere - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 2 - Roden, ToonyMan,

4 to Hammer. Day ends on April 04, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~52 hours remaining).

[TricMagic]

Vote Count
------------------------
TricMagic - 2 - 4maskwolf*, notquitethere*,
4maskwolf - 1 - Maximum Spin*,
ToonyMan - 1 - TricMagic*,
Maximum Spin - 0 -
notquitethere - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 2 - Roden, ToonyMan,

4 to Hammer. Day ends on April 04, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~52 hours remaining).

looks up
That is not a good look for you 4mask. (Or NQT for that matter.)

[Roden]

It rules out possible team combinations at least. We know for certain that any combination of Toony/Max/me is impossible now, or else Tric would be hammered.

Which means the Max super Cop plan is guaranteed to catch mafia, and likely just solved the game. Let's do it.

[Maximum Spin]

Which means the Max super Cop plan is guaranteed to catch mafia, and likely just solved the game. Let's do it.

Hold on, to be clear, what plan are you talking about? Me checking ToonyMan and expecting him to reload it if town?

[ToonyMan]

NQT: Supposedly you believe that ToonyMan and 4maskwolf are both town. If so, you must presumably believe that they have genuinely exchanged an item that penetrates protects, specifically, between them. Do you believe that this item was actually a red herring, or that someone else has a secret, unmentioned protect ability? Are you softclaiming protection alongside your ridiculous "bad vibes smelling tracker" idea?

Excellent point. 4mask and myself can confirm that 4mask received a protection-based ability from Tric, who has also claimed being a doctor.

It rules out possible team combinations at least. We know for certain that any combination of Toony/Max/me is impossible now, or else Tric would be hammered.

Also true, if there were two mafia inside Toony/Max/Roden then two of us could hammer Tric for a reasonable game win.

[Maximum Spin]

NQT: Supposedly you believe that ToonyMan and 4maskwolf are both town. If so, you must presumably believe that they have genuinely exchanged an item that penetrates protects, specifically, between them. Do you believe that this item was actually a red herring, or that someone else has a secret, unmentioned protect ability? Are you softclaiming protection alongside your ridiculous "bad vibes smelling tracker" idea?

Excellent point. 4mask and myself can confirm that 4mask received a protection-based ability from Tric, who has also claimed being a doctor.

We can take it further than that, you know.
I can confirm that 4mask's role really is X-Com. So, why does X-Com dissect aliens? To use their technology against them. If you can confirm that 4mask received the ability to penetrate protection from dissecting Tric, it's reasonable to infer that he would have had the ability to use it as well.

[TricMagic]

NQT: Supposedly you believe that ToonyMan and 4maskwolf are both town. If so, you must presumably believe that they have genuinely exchanged an item that penetrates protects, specifically, between them. Do you believe that this item was actually a red herring, or that someone else has a secret, unmentioned protect ability? Are you softclaiming protection alongside your ridiculous "bad vibes smelling tracker" idea?

Excellent point. 4mask and myself can confirm that 4mask received a protection-based ability from Tric, who has also claimed being a doctor.

We can take it further than that, you know.
I can confirm that 4mask's role really is X-Com. So, why does X-Com dissect aliens? To use their technology against them. If you can confirm that 4mask received the ability to penetrate protection from dissecting Tric, it's reasonable to infer that he would have had the ability to use it as well.

To be fair, Sacrifice is literally P1, there is no blocking it normally. Unless you use something that bypasses it entirely.

[notquitethere]

OK finally got some time to sit down and properly think through all the revelations of the day.

The pertinent facts are:

1. 4mask necessarily performed the kill on Jim (claiming to have been hypnotised)
2. Toony's claim to have stolen an item from 4mask is confirmed by 4mask.
3. Toony claims to have copied Roden's action on 4maskwolf
4. Tric claims to have protected 4mask
5. Roden claims to have shot NQT
6. Jim was the only person to die.
7. Max apparently did something investigative but won't claim
8. NQT tracked 4mask to Jim

So we must ask:

- Is there a combination of actions which makes all these claims true and fits with the facts?
- What possible teams could account for the discrepancies between the claims?

Possible Teams

Roden and Toony

Roden could have hypno'd 4mask, and Toony stolen an item. There never was any vig shots. Toony is a godfather. If Roden is scum, then Toony has to be in on it. For instance, a Roden/Tric team wouldn't work, as then who would have performed the kill (as a town!Toony confirms Roden makes the shot).

Toony and Max

One hypnotises 4mask, the other protects NQT (why??). Not likely.

Toony and Tric
Tric's protect protects a random town person as a drawback OR they have a one-shot that protects everyone (which bounces off of Jim onto 4mask). This latter power is actually quite plausible, as Tric already claimed to be able to stop all kills in a night (on N1). In this scenario, Tric intends to protect Toony, while Toony hypnotises 4mask.

4mask and Tric

Tric has a overpowered protect as above, which he uses to protect his scum buddy 4mask, blocking Toony and Roden's shots. scum!4mask not shooting the doctor makes sense in this scenario as the 'doctor' is scum.

4mask and Max

4mask shoots Jim, Max protects NQT (why???). This one works for the actions but makes no sense, motive-wise.

Max and Tric

Max hypnotises 4mask into killing Jim, an action he would obviously be framed for; Tric casts a one-shot mass protect on everyone (which bounces off of poor Jim). This works with the actions, but why would scum!Tric protect when the vig target wasn't going to be one of the mafia? This doesn't seem likely.

NQT and 4mask

4mask shoots Jim in a unforced error instead of the doctor, then NQT revives from being shot without creating a revived message. This is tactically unlikely and mechanically impossible.

NQT and Max

NQT hypnotises 4mask into kill Jim. Max protects NQT. This team works with the facts and would be a tactically sound plan. If I didn't know it was false, I'd be suspicious of this combo.

NQT and Toony

NQT hypnotises 4mask, Toony steals from 4mask. This also fits the facts. 

Unusual variants

There could be an OP 3rd party messing with everyone, there might be one single all-powerful scum player, there could be mafia allies etc. There's too many edge cases to consider, but as we have no reason to believe these are in play, we can set them aside for our sanity.


If we rule out all the mechanically impossible and motiveless team ups, this is the web of possible teams:



As such, either Toony or Tric or both are scum. Given that if there is a two-person scum team, we're in MYLO, if we can't definitely decide between Toony and Tric, we should no vote.

I know I'm not infallible and I'm a big enough person to admit I can overlook things (like I missed the logically intertwining of Toony and Roden, at first). So what possibility am I missing here?