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[brewer bob]

If russians don't do anything, they can just be treated as nothing and sent to containment camps

Please do tell what they should be doing then.

You don't build up an insurrection to take down the government out of nowhere. There isn't an existing large enough social movement that could mobilize such a thing any time soon. And with all the draconic government control, even organizing a simple demonstration isn't a cakewalk when people get arrested even before sending a call to come and protest. Putin has made certain that no opposition can survive. This has been going on since the Chechnya war, so that's two decades of taking control of Russian media and cracking down on civil society.

Edit. I'd rather blame my government and others in the so-called West for not taking a strong enough stance against Putin (before now -- and still it's not strong enough), even though there's been evidence of human rights violations and war crimes for a long, long time.

[nenjin]

Meanwhile....

https://twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1510910740261134338?t=FqmPjW0pfKQKq8T-F55dWQ&s=09

I don't speak Russian but apparently the official plan for them is complete Ukrainian genocide?

""Nazis who took weapons, must be killed in numbers as much as possible... Not just the elites, the most of the people are guilty, they are passive Nazis, Nazi enablers. They supported these elites and must be punished""

"Further denacification of the mass of the population is to be reached through ideological repression (oppression) of Nazi ideas and through harsh censorship: not only in politics, but in culture and education areas"."

""Ukraine must pay for its guilt towards Russia. It must be treated as an enemy, and therefore may develop only in dependency to Russia. No "Marshall plan" may happen. No "neutrality" both ideological or practical"."

""Personnel providing denazification in new denazified republics (plural! - Sumlenny) cannot act on another way but only with direct military-police and management support from Russia. Denazification must be a Deukrainisation"."

""The history has proven: Ukraine may not exist as a national state. Any attempt to create it leads to Nazism. Ukrainism is an artificial anti-Russian construct... De-banderisation is not enough... Denazification of Ukraine must be De-Europeazation of it"."

""The Bandera-elites must be liquidated, they cannot be re-educated. The social "swamp" who supported them must experience terror of war and learn the lesson, and pay for its guilt"."

Whoever is writing that is chugging nationalist koolaid with a generous helping of genocide sugar. I don't blame anyone for feeling angry and directing their anger at "Russia" in general....but that's wrong. Meanwhile, holy shit. It sure as fuck sounds like Mordor is coming.

[martinuzz]

Germany has declared 40 Russian diplomats to be persona non grata, because they are working for Russian Intelligence. They have 5 days to leave the country.

German Minister of Economic Affairs, Robert Habeck, pleas for 'unlimited arms supply' to Ukraine. He wants arms deliveries from Germany to scale up, without any restrictions.
Only one condition should apply: Germany is not to become a party in the war with Russia.

[Ganondworf]

Meanwhile....

https://twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1510910740261134338?t=FqmPjW0pfKQKq8T-F55dWQ&s=09

I don't speak Russian but apparently the official plan for them is complete Ukrainian genocide?

""Nazis who took weapons, must be killed in numbers as much as possible... Not just the elites, the most of the people are guilty, they are passive Nazis, Nazi enablers. They supported these elites and must be punished""
[...]

Whoever is writing that is chugging nationalist koolaid with a generous helping of genocide sugar. I don't blame anyone for feeling angry and directing their anger at "Russia" in general....but that's wrong. Meanwhile, holy shit. It sure as fuck sounds like Mordor is coming.

At that point I cannot understand anymore. Anyone with basic human decency and logical thought processes should realize that that is not the language of the good guys.

[The_Explorer]

The problem with coming up with excuses to not do anything, is the exact situation where ukranians get murdered by nazi russia. Or nazi germany back in world war 2. Or trumptard america where roughly half the nation still supports his nazism.

Nazism seems to have been growing like a disease, and coming up with excuses to not do anything ends up the exact situation of where everyone sees happening now.

[Strongpoint]

I can't stop thinking about Mariupol. Everything indicates that it is Bucha^2. Ones who were lucky enough to survive artillery and bombs and starvation are likely treated like residents of Bucha . There are rumors that Russian mobile crematoriums are already in the captured part of the city and destroy evidence

[Nirur Torir]

Those who call for genocide are doing Putin's work for him, pointlessly building up the divide between bottom-rung people with little choice in the matter, "proving" that it's Russia vs the west.

Direct your frustration instead towards changing the minds of the people who can make a change, the EU politicians who vote to continue financing Putin's atrocities buying Russian fuel. Write to them, write to papers about the need to do more to stop the horrors even if it means less money in the bank, spread a message of the need for unity against this war.


Living through this really makes the "horrors of war" phrase so much more real. It's easy to remain detached from reading a passage in a history book about Hitler and Stalin murdering millions. Living through this, Putin murdering hundreds of thousands on the justification that "Ukraine might have one day been a threat to Russia" hits so much harder, despite the smaller scale.

[anewaname]

The slow response from the German and EU politicians is directly tied to internal conflict within the layers of the EU government. Some of those politicians are economically tied to Russia through export contracts, and they need time to minimize their economic losses; so they are stalling for time and bickering with other politicians. And if they are not directly involved in the contracts, they are involved through their family, friends, business relations, and potential black-mailers.

These politicians are the ones complicating the sanctions process and forcing compromises and loopholes in the sanctions, to mitigate their economic losses. They are also the same politicians who complicated the development and implementation of renewables in the EU over the years, because they didn't want competition for their fossil fuel businesses.

[brewer bob]

I can't stop thinking about Mariupol. Everything indicates that it is Bucha^2.

Yeah, I'm afraid things we'll see from Mariupol will be much worse than what we've seen so far.

Even though the atrocities aren't really anything new from Russian soldiers (or wars in general), I'm still at a loss of words.

The slow response from the German and EU politicians is directly tied to internal conflict within the layers of the EU government. Some of those politicians are economically tied to Russia through export contracts, and they need time to minimize their economic losses; so they are stalling for time and bickering with other politicians. And if they are not directly involved in the contracts, they are involved through their family, friends, business relations, and potential black-mailers.

And this is also one reason why there hasn't been a strong stance against Putin earlier.

[Robsoie]

For those curious about the "what Russia will do with Ukraine" article mentionned in the twitter extract, as the twitter unfortunately didn't linked to it, here is the actual article on the RIA website :
https://ria.ru/20220403/ukraina-1781469605.html?fbclid=IwAR1ZIUhDAiRSE-dJc5ueqFVoaR1ub3CcuJZlNwlpzK-VDeg6_liLAQfdLVI

So you can put it into google translation (that for once result in a rather understanable translation) to check by yourself how that RIA "journalist" is making Goebbels really proud.

[Strongpoint]

https://wetransfer.com/downloads/f33641b0a09957807cf465453a1e64e020220404142156/b0590d - Pdf with an English translation of the article.

[The_Explorer]

Sorry if I went overboard with my posts. Just seeing excuses to not do anything is like saying (though this first example much lesser degree) "well trump won, might as well not do anything to prevent him being re-elected again, too many people like him"..."well german nazi are taking over, might as well not do anything who can stand up against them".. Kinda the whole thing is really ...saddening.

But I do see there are russians protesting, even if maybe not that many, and some here have explained why they aren't all out rioting. Its different there than in the US.

[Svarte Troner]

I don't think those of us arguing against painting all Russians as inherently bloodthirsty killers and nazifascists with an irredeemably bad culture and history (which is ironically how the Russians are also painting all Ukrainians) are trying to make up an excuse to "not do anything." Very doubtful that anyone who could "do anything" about the situation is currently browsing this forum for tips.

Don't fall for nationalist bullshit is all's I'm trying to say.

[MrRoboto75]

Don't fall for nationalist bullshit is all's I'm trying to say.

If the Red Scare was so cool why isn't there a Red Scare Tw-