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[KittyTac]

I get you loathe Russia in its current state Strongpoint, but neo-imperialist Japan is not what you want as a replacement.

Yep. Not to mention nobody on Sakhalin wants to be with Japan.

Who says they’d be there long enough to object?

Hmmm yes, ethnic cleansing, the mark of being better than your enemy.

[Random_Dragon]

Hmmm yes, ethnic cleansing, the mark of being better than your enemy.

[Insert repeated joke about how Russia keeps cracking open the floorboards to set the bar even lower here]

[Strongpoint]

I get you loathe Russia in its current state Strongpoint, but neo-imperialist Japan is not what you want as a replacement.

Yep. Not to mention nobody on Sakhalin wants to be with Japan.

Do you really believe this? Should Japan offer locals full Japanese citizenship with all that comes with it, they'll jump in as quickly as they can. Especially after a few years of economic recession in Russia.

The same goes for Kaliningrad and Germany, Karelia and Finland, Kamchatka and USA (no I don't think that those countries have any interest... It is hypothetical)

I suspect that even Irkutsk won't mind joining China much.

[Quarque]

And Russia will either collapse or start WW3, there is no other end for this country possible. As soon as humanity will find alternatives to fossil fuels, Russia will end, one way or another. Their society can't function without massive amounts of free $$$. Yes, Moscow has other resources to extract from its colonies, but they are unlikely to be as meaningful as fossil fuels, energy was, is and will be the king of the world economy.


And I hope to live long enough to observe the collapse.

What exactly do you mean by collapse? It sounds rather vague. What do you think might happen and how?

Looking at North Korea, we see proof that extreme poverty doesn't necessarily mean that something will change ..

[martinuzz]

The dutch healthcare is in dire need of more Ukrainian translators. We don't have enough translators to provide adequate healthcare for refugees because we have no idea what they are saying (We've taken in about 50000 refugees so far, that's just way more than our society is prepared to handle in the practical sense).
Government is considering building temporary villages (which is probably a eufemism for tent camps, building actual buildings would take years of cutting through red tape) for them and schools. We kinda don't have excess school capacity either.

[Strongpoint]

And Russia will either collapse or start WW3, there is no other end for this country possible. As soon as humanity will find alternatives to fossil fuels, Russia will end, one way or another. Their society can't function without massive amounts of free $$$. Yes, Moscow has other resources to extract from its colonies, but they are unlikely to be as meaningful as fossil fuels, energy was, is and will be the king of the world economy.


And I hope to live long enough to observe the collapse.

What exactly do you mean by collapse? It sounds rather vague. What do you think might happen and how?

Looking at North Korea, we see proof that extreme poverty doesn't necessarily mean that something will change ..

Anything from 1917 ver 2.0 to 1991 ver 2.0.

Neo-Stalinism and one huge North Korea is possible, but IMO, unlikely. Russia is huge and multiethnic

[Lord Shonus]

In Japan, the post-WW2 taboo of speaking about leaving the path of miltary non-aggression is no more.
Politicians debate about expanding the military with offensive weaponry, and there are even talks about allowing the US to place nuclear weapons in their country, in response to Russia's aggression, and China's support.

Japan already has one of the world's most powerful militaries despite the "self defense force" branding - they have the 4th largest Navy including two aircraft carriers "aviation destroyers" and 36 missile destroyers. Their Air Force is small but very powerful at 745 planes, most of which are among the most advanced in the world. Their Army is a little weaker comparatively, with "only" 150,000 soldiers and a thousand tanks (with proportionate artillery and logistics elements). They're also a "near-nuclear power" that could probably assemble a nuke within weeks if they ever decided to.

If they drop the Self Defense Force label and start expanding to a fully offensively capable force, they'll be the world's second-ranking power within five years.

I think you need to put down the Manga...

Two aircraft carriers and 36 missile destroyers absolutely is not the 4th largest navy.  MOST navies have two aircraft carriers (if you include the Helicopter Carriers).  In what way is that larger than the navies of United States, United Kingdom, Russia, and China again?

Also Italy and France are comparable.

Frankly, the nutters on the Nationalist side of things are almost always behind the military.  It doesn't mean everyone should disarm just because you might disagree with some of the crazy theories of those who like guns.

Excluding patrol ships and auxiliaries but including both attack and ballistic missile submarines.

Japan has 2 carriers, 2 helicopter carriers, and a total of 66 combat ships. The Royal Navy has 2 (albeit larger carriers), a total of 32 combat ships. Italy has 2 carriers, and a total of 29 combat ships. France has 1 carrier (albeit the only non-US carrier on par with a US carrier), 31 combat ships. All three are smaller than Japan. Russia (if you count the huge number of corvettes), China, and the US have larger fleets, placing Japan at #4.

[Quarque]

Anything from 1917 ver 2.0 to 1991 ver 2.0.

Neo-Stalinism and one huge North Korea is possible, but IMO, unlikely. Russia is huge and multiethnic

What happened in 1991 was that several regions with a strong historical national self identity broke away from the Soviet Union. It made sense, as a reversal of the post-WW2 state of things. Are there any regions left within the current Russian borders that have such a national identity, other than Russian?

With "1917 2.0", do you just mean the part where the tsar was brought down? I don't see a modern-day analogy of the ideological revolution that happened back then, am I missing something?

[MaxTheFox]

I get you loathe Russia in its current state Strongpoint, but neo-imperialist Japan is not what you want as a replacement.

Yep. Not to mention nobody on Sakhalin wants to be with Japan.

Do you really believe this? Should Japan offer locals full Japanese citizenship with all that comes with it, they'll jump in as quickly as they can. Especially after a few years of economic recession in Russia.

The same goes for Kaliningrad and Germany, Karelia and Finland, Kamchatka and USA (no I don't think that those countries have any interest... It is hypothetical)

I suspect that even Irkutsk won't mind joining China much.

Do you know how Japan treats their ethnic minorities? The Ainu say hi. They wouldn't offer jack shit. The truth is, most Russians are far less separatist than you think and would rather stay with Russia. I get it, you like Japan, but they wouldn't treat the Russians well. Besides as others have said it's a slippery slope for renewed Japanese expansionism which would be terrible.

Irkutsk joining China is completely out of left field, and honestly wouldn't be better than staying with Russia even purely politically. China is oppressive.

Anything from 1917 ver 2.0 to 1991 ver 2.0.

Neo-Stalinism and one huge North Korea is possible, but IMO, unlikely. Russia is huge and multiethnic

What happened in 1991 was that several regions with a strong historical national self identity broke away from the Soviet Union. It made sense, as a reversal of the post-WW2 state of things. Are there any regions left within the current Russian borders that have such a national identity, other than Russian?

With "1917 2.0", do you just mean the part where the tsar was brought down? I don't see a modern-day analogy of the ideological revolution that happened back then, am I missing something?

To answer your question, not really. Even places like Buryatia, Tuva, Tatarstan are very Russified, and it's mostly the Empire's and (to a lesser extent) the USSR's doing.

[scriver]

You are wrong. I loathe Russia in whatever state it was since it began existing.

But if you apply that statement far back enough you will make Sweden sad. :V

Luckily before that it will involve the Kievan Rus

It won't. Kievan Rus has no more relation to Russia than Romania to Rome. Kyiv is as Russian as Rome is Romanian.

At some point, Muscovy decided that calling itself Tsardom of Russia sounds cooler.

Lol yeah Romania has absolutely nothing to do with Rome except everything

[MaxTheFox]

Muscovy was one of the remnants of Kyivan Rus' though.

Saying that Kyivan Rus' was Russian or Ukrainian is an anachronism. Was the Roman Empire Italian then, or was it Greek?

[Strongpoint]

You are wrong. I loathe Russia in whatever state it was since it began existing.

But if you apply that statement far back enough you will make Sweden sad. :V

Luckily before that it will involve the Kievan Rus

It won't. Kievan Rus has no more relation to Russia than Romania to Rome. Kyiv is as Russian as Rome is Romanian.

At some point, Muscovy decided that calling itself Tsardom of Russia sounds cooler.

Lol yeah Romania has absolutely nothing to do with Rome except everything

So, is it time for Romania to lay claim on Rome, and can we call Italians and Romanians one nation?

Obviously, Russia is related to Kyiv Rus but Kyiv Rus wasn't Russia, Roman Empire wasn't Romania.

Let's imagine I said, "I loathe the USA in whatever state it was since it began existing."  Wouldn't it be absurd if someone said that it includes the Kingdom of England and that pesky American William the Conqueror?

[MaxTheFox]

You are wrong. I loathe Russia in whatever state it was since it began existing.

But if you apply that statement far back enough you will make Sweden sad. :V

Luckily before that it will involve the Kievan Rus

It won't. Kievan Rus has no more relation to Russia than Romania to Rome. Kyiv is as Russian as Rome is Romanian.

At some point, Muscovy decided that calling itself Tsardom of Russia sounds cooler.

Lol yeah Romania has absolutely nothing to do with Rome except everything

The territory currently comprising Romania was never part of the Roman Empire. Even during the Byzantine period (which was still the Roman Empire).

[Svarte Troner]

If we're gonna decide where lines on the map should be drawn today based on who got conquered and enslaved the hardest by vikings 1000 years ago then when is half of England going to rightfully come under the rule of the Danelaw again?

[Starver]

I only pledge my allegience to the Beaker People!