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[Vector]

I've been translating Russian anti-war poetry for the past ten years. What the military is doing is disgusting but the number of good Russians is not in fact, zero.

Is it negligible? Perhaps. But not zero.

[None]

It isn't good stuff. Russian have no moral lows and proved that many times.

It's about tempering your reaction and speculation, which Il Palazzo outlined, and given that Russia hasn't weaponized Chernobyl or carved organs out of displaced Ukrainians, is a good, measured take to have. There's plenty to discuss or be anxious about with regards to the war, but getting carried away with the breaking news hysteria is going to raise blood pressures and animosities.

I realize I'm probably not helping by speculating about the polish embassy, but.

[Random_Dragon]

I've been translating Russian anti-war poetry for the past ten years. What the military is doing is disgusting but the number of good Russians is not in fact, zero.

Is it negligible? Perhaps. But not zero.

Hence why I said "Russian military" not "Russian people" given the former is the one bombing hospitals and the like.

Side note, I'm fairly certain the organ-harvesting remark was probably in reference to this being something China's done with its dissidents. Not sure if Russia's been up to the same or not. If not then it's just a generic "example of the caliber of shit authoritarian countries get up to" sort of thing and not a full-on accusation, but if they have then it would be entirely reasonable to suspect that the Ukrainians that are being basically forced into Russia might have that done to them.

Again, because of the whole "bar has been stamped into the floor" thing. They're already deliberately doing HORRENDOUS shit to civilians in Ukraine, there's thus far no reason not to suspect that they'll "punish" Ukrainians they have securely in their grasp for being associated with a country that's refused to roll over and die for them, and having them safely out of reach of international media means they have fewer things to discourage such behavior.

Not that that last bit matters, given what they've already been perfectly okay with doing where other countries can see them and report on it. Again. Bar. Floor. Etc.

EDIT: Spelling fix, weh.

[Il Palazzo]

The problem here is that the perception of how low the bar is, is also fuelled by speculating on how low it is. Say, somebody speculates that the Russians have done A. Then somebody comes and says: if they've done A, then there's no reason not to suspect they won't do B. And later somebody else recalls that since they can do B, then surely they're capable of doing C. At which point nobody remembers or cares if A was ever factual - after all, if they can do C, then everyone must agree A is well within their capabilities.
It's a form of circular logic. What you do to avoid this is you don't speculate in the first place. There's no benefit to doing it.

[nenjin]

Well, other than the tangential psychological benefit of feeling like you have a grasp on events completely beyond your control.

[brewer bob]

Just as a note, organ and human trafficking happens in Europe, too. It's not just a Russian thing. For example, Moldova and Romania have been primary sources for sex and labor trafficking, and both have received refugees who're vulnerable to exploitation.

Here's a recent article from the Guardian about the Poland-Ukraine border:

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/mar/24/vigilantes-stalk-ukraine-border-as-sex-traffickers-target-fleeing-women-and-children

[EuchreJack]

I'm not sure anyone thinks they can fully stop China from trying to position itself as the primary trade partner with Russia while sanctions last, but expressing a clear and immediate opposition to their support of Russia also affects the disposition of other states that might be on the fence with regards to the issue, especially if things escalate. It might also reduce the extent to which China is willing to back Russia, as it increases the percieved cost of more concrete forms of support.

I do find myself wondering how various countries are actually doing militarily after this though. Russia's armed forces seem to have been rotting through for some time now, and it's making me wonder how many other countries have the same issue. India and China both have huge armies, but if they're anything like Russia is for quality then I'm not sure they would stand up to much in a modern conflict.

The problems plaguing Russia's military are quite possibly unique to Russia.  Mostmother countries aren't trying to maintain a US-level military on an Italy-level GDP in a government that was literally founded on the notion of stealimg any money that's not being watched like a hawk.

China in particular has more than adequate economy to support their military spending, and all evidence is that they seal rather harshly with people trying to steal from the governmemt. It is very likely that Russia's issues here are prompting a review, and we'll probably know pretty quick if anybody's beem stealing from China's military. Because China will shoot them.

Yeah, I wouldn't expect that the Chinese Army is inefficient. It isn't battle-tested so one can never know but it should be far better organized than Russian. I think in this new world the only thing that will keep Russian independence is their nukes, China is able to steamroll right to Ukrainian border otherwise

If nothing else, the Chinese Army at least has more bodies than the Russian Army.  By a factor of 10, I believe.

[hector13]

Do you think Xi will offer up Chinese bodies for Putin’s failing vanity project?

[Quarque]

Is it negligible? Perhaps. But not zero.

Of course it isn't negligible. Thousands of Russians have been brave enough to protest, in spite of Putin going all-out totalitarian. My guess is that there is a 50/50 split between Russians who are just as appaled by what is happening as we are and brainwashed Z ombies.

Of course, Russian state media is trying to hide the existence of Russians who disagree with their dictator.

Even among Russian soldiers I'm quite sure quite a few of them are coerced into this senseless war. Kgb is larger than the army.

[EuchreJack]

Do you think Xi will offer up Chinese bodies for Putin’s failing vanity project?

NOPE.

Those are Xi's bodies.  He's not gonna waste them to help Putin out.
Most that Putin can expect is outdated equipment that Russia gave China being resold to Russia for twice its actual value.

[LordBaal]

Those bodies are for taking Taiwan, and organ harvesing for the older high rank members of the party.

[martinuzz]

The Ukrainian ombudsman, Lyudmyla Denisova, reports that 402000 people have been forcibly kidnapped and taken to Russia by the Russians. Amongst them are 84000 children.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-europe-nato-5af548b472ba5a3ea4c64d4ef0aa4234

Also, half of all the children in Ukraine have now lost their homes. Unicef reports that of the 7.5 million children, 4.3 million have lost their home, of whom 2 million have fled Ukraine, and 2.5 million are adrift in their own country.
Unicef calls it a tragic milestone which will have consequences for generations to come.

[LordBaal]

Ffff...... fuckkkkkkkk.

[delphonso]

Do you think Xi will offer up Chinese bodies for Putin’s failing vanity project?

NOPE.

Those are Xi's bodies.  He's not gonna waste them to help Putin out.
Most that Putin can expect is outdated equipment that Russia gave China being resold to Russia for twice its actual value.

Inside China, this is the overwhelming opinion. Even if people think what Russia is doing is justified, it's clearly not a fight China should join, and people would be surprised or upset if a single Chinese person died for it. Propoganda can change that opinion quickly, but it hasn't started to yet.

[Lord Shonus]

Seeing some fairly solid reports that the Ukranian Army is gearing up to drive on Kerson.