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Author Topic: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)  (Read 68502 times)

martinuzz

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #705 on: March 10, 2022, 01:20:35 pm »

The International Red Cross reports that the residents of Mariupol can no longer feed their children, and there is no water of heating left in the city.
Fights are breaking out over the last scraps of food, and people are siphoning fuel from each other's vehicles.
All stores and pharmacies in the city have been emptied by plundering.
With temperatures of -5C at night, it is getting harder and harder to stay warm.
Already, people are starting to become ill from hypothermia.

The humanitarian convoy heading to the city had to turn around because of the heavy fights around the city.
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #706 on: March 10, 2022, 01:36:56 pm »

snip
snip
All I know about this subject is what a couple of historians say. Namely Norman Davies and David Glantz (though fuck me if I remember where they said that). In their opinion Lend-lease hadn't even properly started by the time of the Soviet victories that turned the Nazis around (late 42-early 43), and did not contribute in any significant way to Soviet capabilities up to that time. Everything afterwards is just gradual moping up of constantly retreating Germans by an overwhelming force, so all it can be credited with is faster, more efficient conclusion to an already won war.
Though there's probably a number of historians out there with opposing views, dunno.
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #707 on: March 10, 2022, 02:04:12 pm »

Q: to the Ukrainians here, if you're alright with sharing this information. Roughly in which part of the country are you located? Have your family or friends (or yourself) decided to leave the country or are they staying?
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Strongpoint

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #708 on: March 10, 2022, 02:22:45 pm »

Q: to the Ukrainians here, if you're alright with sharing this information. Roughly in which part of the country are you located? Have your family or friends (or yourself) decided to leave the country or are they staying?

I am in a village near Poltava, most of my family is in Poltava itself. All of my family is staying but we have already made plans of evacuating our children to Western Ukraine should Russian forces come closer.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #709 on: March 10, 2022, 02:49:30 pm »


I would laugh for days if Ukraine crushed Russia militarily but I really don't see it happening.  I think Ukrainian military defeat is a foregone conclusion and we shouldn't draw overly optimistic conclusions from the botched invasion.  Especially when it comes to Russia's performance in a hypothetical full-on regional war.  It would not be the first time that people drew erroneous conclusions about Russia's large-scale capabilities from a boondoggle invasion (I'm talking about the winter war of course, which played into Hitler's confidence about an invasion, also of course relevant to note that despite their disproportionate performance against the Russians Finland lost the winter war)


There's ample reason to believe that the forces Russia has already committed to this war constitute everything usable that they have.

The spread of equipment known to have been deployed and destroyed ranges from "most advanced model currently in service" to "factory-standard and unupgraded models from nearly fifty years ago (there's been some stock T-72As (which rolled off the production line in 1979) confirmed destroyed)". That's where the completely nonsense conspiracy theory that "Russia is just sending in all their crap troops to soften the Ukranians up" comes from, because nobody wants to admit that the Russian military is in this sad a shape.

On paper, Russia still has immense reserves of men and equipment. But this war is such a perfect example of the difference between "paper strength' and "actual strength" that it could be used as an academic dissertation. Even if they actually have the men they claim to have (which they probably don't - lack of manpower has been a critical issue for the Russian armed forces even in their "interventions", which is why they rely so heavily on groups like Wagner), they're very clearly critically short of fuel, ammunition, and up-to-date weaponry. It is blatantly obvious that their huge piles of mothballed equipment have not been maintained properly (many of the photos of abandoned vehicles show obvious signs of failing seals and such), their new weapons don't work, and they're running out of trucks.

Meanwhile, the Ukranians are growing stronger by the day as more and more of the highest-grade weapons in the world (which do work, as it happens), and have more manpower than they can effectively use at the moment. They're growing stronger by the day.

This isn't the Winter War, or the invasion of Poland, or the Fall of France. This is Mussolini's invasion of Greece (even including the pro-russian activists demanding that the victims stop defending themselves), and there's no Hitler to bail him out.
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TamerVirus

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #710 on: March 10, 2022, 03:01:10 pm »

All the money that was supposed to upgrade the military got mysteriously misplaced, I’d imagine
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martinuzz

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #711 on: March 10, 2022, 03:37:03 pm »

Unless all their luxury yachts are secret missile platforms
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scriver

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #712 on: March 10, 2022, 03:49:16 pm »

This isn't the Winter War, or the invasion of Poland, or the Fall of France. This is Mussolini's invasion of Greece (even including the pro-russian activists demanding that the victims stop defending themselves), and there's no Hitler to bail him out.

*glances at China*
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heydude6

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #713 on: March 10, 2022, 05:44:16 pm »

You know China has officially endorsed Putin's invasion, right?
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McTraveller

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #714 on: March 10, 2022, 06:32:30 pm »

If this quote is real...

Quote from: Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov
We are not planning to attack other countries.  We did not attack Ukraine either.

Do words even have meaning any more?
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TamerVirus

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #715 on: March 10, 2022, 06:40:07 pm »

You know China has officially endorsed Putin's invasion, right?
Yeah, and they’ll help out by connecting Russia to Alipay and WeChat
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lemon10

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #716 on: March 10, 2022, 06:52:24 pm »

You know China has officially endorsed Putin's invasion, right?
China and Russia know better than anyone else that words are nothing but meaningless theater.

That vote in the UN condemning Russia? It was the equivalent of everyone saying "We're sending bad thoughts and prayers their way".

Similarly, China saying "Russia isn't so bad guys" really doesn't matter at all. What matters is the monetary/economic/millitary support they are willing to throw Russia's way.

From what I can tell they have given them literally no military support, nor have they actually tried to get around the sanctions to support Russia economically.

As the timeline extends into months or years and the conflict is past I can definitely see them ignoring the sanctions or getting around them via "We never agreed to any sanctions bitches", but they haven't taken any economic action yet to bypass them, nor do I think they will until the actual fighting passes.
If this quote is real...

Quote from: Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov
We are not planning to attack other countries.  We did not attack Ukraine either.

Do words even have meaning any more?
Russian government words? Nah, they don't have any meaning or value at all.
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MrRoboto75

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #717 on: March 10, 2022, 07:34:21 pm »

We've always never been at war with Eurasia.
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heydude6

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #718 on: March 10, 2022, 08:29:26 pm »

Those generals and commanders are going to eventually realize that obeying Putin’s order to participate in this war will be nothing but a death sentence for them. Right?

...Right?

Am I really supposed to believe that they’re going to continue to willingly throwing their lives away for this stupid war, when it’s only justification relies on complex geopolitics that Putin doesn’t want the average Russian citizen to understand?
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You can fake being able to run on water. You can't fake looking cool when you break your foot on a door and hit your head on the floor.

martinuzz

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #719 on: March 10, 2022, 08:41:25 pm »

Russia has asked the UN Security Council to convene about 'the military biological activities of the US on Ukrainian territory'.
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479
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