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Author Topic: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)  (Read 68837 times)

Strongpoint

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #195 on: February 26, 2022, 09:12:00 am »

...or nuking them.

Nukes are perhaps the only piece of technology in this world that is expected to not be actually activated.

He won't dare press that button.

I am 99% sure that this madman will give this order at some point. My hope is that it won't be followed
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They ought to be pitied! They are already on a course for self-destruction! They do not need help from us. We need to redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities!

da_nang

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #196 on: February 26, 2022, 09:22:38 am »

They could close exiting ships, not incoming ones.

Quote
In time of war, Turkey not being belligerent, warships shall enjoy complete freedom of transit and navigation through the Straits under the same conditions as those laid down in Articles 10 to 18.

Vessels of war belonging to belligerent Powers shall not, however, pass through the Straits except in cases arising out of the application of Article 25 of the present Convention, and in cases of assistance rendered to a State victim of aggression in virtue of a treaty of mutual assistance binding Turkey, concluded within the framework of the Covenant of the League of Nations, and registered and published in accordance with the provisions of Article 18 of the Covenant.
Article 19, Montreux Convention.

Article 25 is just boilerplate to ensure the Convention doesn't "prejudice the rights and obligations of Turkey or [...] High Contracting Powers members of the League of Nations, arising out of the Covenant of the League of Nations."

And there's hardly any "mutual assistance" involved here, so I think Turkey is free to close the straits both ways.
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martinuzz

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #197 on: February 26, 2022, 09:27:50 am »

Even Putin's European friend Viktor Orbán of Hungary has now stated that he fully supports all European sanctions.

EDIT: African top economists and the World Food Program have issued a warning that increased grain prices will soon start to become a serious problem, not just for the African countries, but also for refugee camps.
World Food Program gets about 50% of all it's grain from Russia and the Ukraine. WFP director David Beasley says the war in Ukraine will have a 'dramatic impact' on the food situation in refugee camps.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2022, 09:36:52 am by martinuzz »
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MaxTheFox

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #198 on: February 26, 2022, 09:42:53 am »

Everything went to shit within the span of 3 days. Putin now fucked himself.
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Strongpoint

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #199 on: February 26, 2022, 09:45:01 am »

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

Here is a good resource for confirmed equipment losses of both sides
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #200 on: February 26, 2022, 09:49:52 am »

He's already (...) threatened to basically hold the maintenance of the ISS hostage in a way that's had some people interpret it as a threat to de-orbit it
Please, stop repeating this. It's a false spin.
There was an exasperated comment from the head of Roscosmos in response to the sanctions - which would involve stopping cooperation with the Russians in the space sector, which includes performing periodic boosts to keep the ISS in planned orbit (it's scheduled to crash into the ocean in eight years) - to the effect of: 'you can't fire us, we're the only reliable maintenance company in town and your station needs maintenance or it'll crash uncontrollably, possibly in a populated area'. Nobody's threatening to deorbit the station. They just want to keep their main source of income. And it's Roscosmos who is held hostage here - that's the point of the sanctions.
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martinuzz

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #201 on: February 26, 2022, 09:51:44 am »

Well, he also said that we should not forget tht Russia is the only manufacturer of the ISS's maneuvering thrusters.
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

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da_nang

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #202 on: February 26, 2022, 09:52:23 am »

I'm concerned for Mariupol. The Russian column in Melitopol seems to be advancing upon it, according to liveuamap.com. The Mariupol defenders will be fighting on two fronts if it's not stopped.

Turkish authorities are also denying that they've closed the straits.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2022, 09:54:58 am by da_nang »
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Starver

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #203 on: February 26, 2022, 09:59:45 am »

Қазақстан is closer to "Kazakstan" I think.
Maybe, maybe not. Depending on how much I express my (local) vernacular, it could be nearer 'ch'-words than '(c)k' ones. But that's still me repeating the 'English' version. Think of "Moscow". English: "Moss-Coe"; US:"Moss-Cow" but neither actually matches "Moskva" anyway...

Let's look it up. It commonly represents the voiceless velar fricative /x/, similar to the pronunciation of ⟨ch⟩ in “loch”.. Based upon my rather limited knowledge of Dutch (a.k.a. "English spoken through a bad cold" ;) ) and more specifically the pronunciation of van Goch's name (/vɑŋ ˈɣɔx/ - it neither rhymes with "loch" or "go", though the latter seems doubly wrong), I wouldn't have been surprised to see "Kazaghstan".

(Also note that it says: "Kha is romanised as ⟨kh⟩ for Russian, Ukrainian, Mongolian, and Tajik, and as ⟨ch⟩ for Belarusian, while being romanised as ⟨h⟩ for Serbo-Croatian, Bulgarian, Macedonian, and Kazakh." So right now, as part of my personal Russian sanctions/apparent Қазақ stand-offishness, I'll start using "Kazahstan", with possible further derussifications later once I've checked out all the other letters.)

I'm not (particularly) a lingual prescriptivist, when it comes to loanwords and loan-names that I have no control over, so I say let the Netherlanders choose their own conventions. (And the Deutsch choose his, or is he a German/Allemand/Tysker/Nemec/Prus/...  :P )

I liked that research too much. Seemed a shame to waste it.
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martinuzz

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #204 on: February 26, 2022, 10:14:59 am »

The ch is a linguistical multipede.
In Dutch, it can be used for many sounds.
It can be pronounced like tsj, like in the dance, cha-cha-cha
It can be pronounced like just a slightly softer g than the one in loch, with the g sound becoming softer and softer the further south you go. It turns into a 'h' somewhere near Gent in Belgium (pronounce: hand).
It can also be pronounced as a kh, like in Kazachstan.

A lot of it has to do with the classical Latin, of which linguist still cannot agree if the original c was pronunced as a ts, a s or a k.
In german it became a k. Ceasar became Kaiser.
In Russian it became a ts. Ceasar became Tzar.
The anglosaxons and francophones just didn't know and they settled on emperor, with some Latin root c's becoming an s (centimeter), and some becoming a k (conjure).

To complicate things, throw in the classical Greek chi (Χ)
« Last Edit: February 26, 2022, 10:18:47 am by martinuzz »
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

da_nang

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #205 on: February 26, 2022, 10:37:19 am »

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MaxTheFox

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #206 on: February 26, 2022, 10:40:10 am »

Қазақстан is closer to "Kazakstan" I think.
Maybe, maybe not. Depending on how much I express my (local) vernacular, it could be nearer 'ch'-words than '(c)k' ones. But that's still me repeating the 'English' version. Think of "Moscow". English: "Moss-Coe"; US:"Moss-Cow" but neither actually matches "Moskva" anyway...

Let's look it up. It commonly represents the voiceless velar fricative /x/, similar to the pronunciation of ⟨ch⟩ in “loch”.. Based upon my rather limited knowledge of Dutch (a.k.a. "English spoken through a bad cold" ;) ) and more specifically the pronunciation of van Goch's name (/vɑŋ ˈɣɔx/ - it neither rhymes with "loch" or "go", though the latter seems doubly wrong), I wouldn't have been surprised to see "Kazaghstan".

(Also note that it says: "Kha is romanised as ⟨kh⟩ for Russian, Ukrainian, Mongolian, and Tajik, and as ⟨ch⟩ for Belarusian, while being romanised as ⟨h⟩ for Serbo-Croatian, Bulgarian, Macedonian, and Kazakh." So right now, as part of my personal Russian sanctions/apparent Қазақ stand-offishness, I'll start using "Kazahstan", with possible further derussifications later once I've checked out all the other letters.)

I'm not (particularly) a lingual prescriptivist, when it comes to loanwords and loan-names that I have no control over, so I say let the Netherlanders choose their own conventions. (And the Deutsch choose his, or is he a German/Allemand/Tysker/Nemec/Prus/...  :P )

I liked that research too much. Seemed a shame to waste it.
In Russian it, at least in my area, is pronounced "Kazahstan". You're too late. :P
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Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless. What will you do on the day of reckoning, when disaster comes from afar?

Strongpoint

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #207 on: February 26, 2022, 10:41:24 am »

Official transliteration from Kazakh is Qazaqstan and phonetically it is qɑzɑqˈstɑn ( https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/83/Kk-kazakhstan.ogg ). Kazakhstan is transliteration from Russian


Back to the topic: Situation on the southern front looks grim. Ukrainian forces in the East may get surrounded.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2022, 10:43:17 am by Strongpoint »
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Starver

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #208 on: February 26, 2022, 10:57:11 am »

Back to the topic: Situation on the southern front looks grim. Ukrainian forces in the East may get surrounded.
That they haven't been already is a Russian failure/Ukrainian triumph.

Even with home-ground advantage, the country was surrounded from NNW clockwise to SSW with freshly practiced troops drawn from one of the largest countries in the world. I bet the wargaming in Moscow went a lot better than this.
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martinuzz

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #209 on: February 26, 2022, 11:52:59 am »

Chechnyan president Ramzan Kadirov has announced that Chechnya's army will be joining the Russian invasion of the Ukraine.
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479
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