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Author Topic: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)  (Read 68779 times)

martinuzz

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #150 on: February 25, 2022, 05:35:43 pm »

In more concrete news, some of the destroyed Russian vehicles that people have been posting pictures of on social media are being identified as command units for support formations like artillery. These are not supposed to be coming under direct fire.

Most likely the combination of 4km range Javelin missiles and brave Ukrainians willing to get within 4km of artillery and command formations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sah9nbGQLFY
« Last Edit: February 25, 2022, 05:37:59 pm by martinuzz »
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #151 on: February 25, 2022, 05:43:43 pm »

This is the first proper use of the Javelin in the designed role - it has been used a lot in Operation Infinite Occupation because precise fire at range is pretty useful even against a machine gun nest, but this is the first time it is being used en masse against modern armor - and appears to be exceeding the promised capabilities. Which doesn't happen often.

Still, if your divisional artillery command vehicles (which at least one knocked-out vehicle appears to be) are getting toasted, it is a sign that things are not going well. The Ukranian defense is like something out of the ancient sagas.
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nenjin

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #152 on: February 25, 2022, 05:45:42 pm »

I imagine the point of the landgrab is to absorb a country with significant nukes so they can't resist in the future, and which has industry and resources that Russia can exploit to bolster their finances. Anyone know what happened to Crimea in the ensuing years after it was annexed? I assume you treat a conquered people like a conquered people and exploit them in the name of the Motherland.
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #153 on: February 25, 2022, 05:46:10 pm »

Our Polish laborers are having to quit their jobs because they are being recalled en masse for military service.
This is a direct problem for many of our companies, especially in the transport and logistics sector. We have a LOT of Polish people working and living here in the Netherlands.
This is, like, 95% fake news.

Honestly, you should maybe consider ditching whatever tabloid you're taking these nuggets from.
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Flying Dice

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #154 on: February 25, 2022, 06:12:07 pm »

Sweden and (especially) Finland have a NATO-in-all-but-name position with the US as it is. An attack on either would probably bring the US in no matter what the rest of the EU does.  And if the USAF goes in, Russia's position degenerates rapidly.


For that matter, both Sweden and Finland have enough air forces to make a huge difference. Russia's military has not lived up to their bragging.


In more concrete news, some of the destroyed Russian vehicles that people have been posting pictures of on social media are being identified as command units for support formations like artillery. These are not supposed to be coming under direct fire.

What even is Putin's goal here with this war against Ukraine? What is he trying to do? Has he gone mad or finally senile?

Is he trying to rally for something? Is this a ploy to keep himself in power? Is it just a mindless landgrab? Or does he really thinks Ukraine is some nest of evil in a delusional fantasy?

Like, I knew there was considerable tension between the two states, but this was all very sudden. I can't keep up with this.

And the "de-nazifying" quote. It makes me uneasy. Such an act of labeling can easily be abused to kill anyone he doesn't likes.

What is happening?!

Part of it is that he seems to really be drinking his own Kool-aid, but there's more to it. Russia's badly mishandled COVID, the population is increasingly restive, and that's making both Putin and the oligarchy nervous. Internationally, Russia's influence is waning badly, to the point where their only real "weapon" against the rest of Europe is fossil fuel supplies. Europe is aggressively shifting to renewables because of climate concern, which will leave Russia in the dust. Nuclear weapons are of very limited use as a diplomatic "big stick".

Russia's other industries (particularly agriculture) are enough to make them a reasonably prosperous middle-of-the-road nation, but Putin isn't satisfied with that. He wants the Great Power status that the Russian Empire once held, or the former Soviet status as one of the world's two Superpowers. Within a few years, that dream and goal will be as dead as the Tsars as Russia becomes increasingly irrelevant on the world stage. The sort of reforms you'd need to genuinely reverse that trend would require dismantling the oligarchy, which will take Putin out.

The classic solution to this is a Short Victorious War. You leap on and crush a weak neighbor, proving to your citizens that you are a strong leader (and, hopefully, getting some loot to pump into the economy and provide a period of prosperity), show the rest of the world you're a force to be reckoned with, and give yourself time to build a new Big Stick or improve other parts of your situation.

Except that the war has proved it will not be Short even if it is eventually victorious, and the international response is "Slava Ukrainia!".


This is pretty much spot on. He's a secret police/propaganda wonk that found himself in charge of the whole country after Boris Yeltsin passed the throne to him, and he's spent so long building this bullshit mythology about himself that he's started to believe it, but is also aware that he and his cronies have spent the past 20 years looting Russia. The Federation is economically in shambles, militarily a husk of what it used to be, and increasingly irrelevant on the international stage. He still to some extent seems to be living in the 1980s in his own mind, but he's having a rude awakening that he's not pushing thousands of tanks through the Fulda Gap and what he does have is running into a hell of a lot more than poor bastards with Jeep-mounted TOWs.

Basically, he's created a situation ripe for losing power and rather than trying to fix his own mistakes has doubled down, only to realize that he's jammed his dick into a woodchipper and is now desperately fumbling for an emergency cutoff (hence the less than veiled threats towards nuclear strikes, Chernobyl "accidents", attacks on Finland/Sweden, continued crackdowns on protestors because he still doesn't seem to understand that Russians have internet access and aren't stupid, &c.).

What I don't understand. Zelensky has (probably correctly) said that the Russians are aiming at a blitz to Kiev, to target and eliminate the government and install a new one.

If I were Zelensky and his government, I would not be in Kiev right now. I'd be in a bunker in a town that is so close to a NATO border that Russians can't use heavy weapons without causing collateral damage on the NATO side.
That's not cowardice, that's self preservation. The US president would be flying around in his doomsday plane if war comes.


EDIT: Zelensky just called out to 'people with military training' in Western countries. "Come to our country, if you do not want to wait on the indecisiveness of your governments".

There's already been what amounts to a call-up by a lot of European right-wing militias, particularly the ones that were involved in the fighting in 2014 and have ties to the Azov Battalion. There seems to be a pretty broad spectrum of response from standard right-nationalists, anti-communists, neo-nazi types, &c.
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martinuzz

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #155 on: February 25, 2022, 06:22:54 pm »

Our Polish laborers are having to quit their jobs because they are being recalled en masse for military service.
This is a direct problem for many of our companies, especially in the transport and logistics sector. We have a LOT of Polish people working and living here in the Netherlands.
This is, like, 95% fake news.

Honestly, you should maybe consider ditching whatever tabloid you're taking these nuggets from.
I don't read tabloids.

The chairman of our national employer's organisation (VNO-NCW) said it in a Volkskrant interview.
https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/werkgeversvoorzitter-ingrid-thijssen-maatregelen-tegen-rusland-moeten-stevig-zijn-het-bedrijfsleven-staat-daar-achter~b14a4dd8/
« Last Edit: February 25, 2022, 06:30:21 pm by martinuzz »
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da_nang

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #156 on: February 25, 2022, 06:37:47 pm »

UNSC held a vote to stop the invasion.

Russia vetoed, as predicted.

China, India, and UAE abstained. Sino-Russian relations might not be as warm as Putin would've liked them to be.
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Flying Dice

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #157 on: February 25, 2022, 06:46:14 pm »

UNSC held a vote to stop the invasion.

Russia vetoed, as predicted.

China, India, and UAE abstained. Sino-Russian relations might not be as warm as Putin would've liked them to be.
Putin's a fool if he thinks China cares about his interests. They want a long, hot war to keep the U.S. too busy to intervene when they try to annex the ROC.
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EuchreJack

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #158 on: February 25, 2022, 06:53:21 pm »

UNSC held a vote to stop the invasion.

Russia vetoed, as predicted.

China, India, and UAE abstained. Sino-Russian relations might not be as warm as Putin would've liked them to be.
Putin's a fool if he thinks China cares about his interests. They want a long, hot war to keep the U.S. too busy to intervene when they try to annex the ROC.

Actually China wins no matter what.

If Russia were somehow able to succeed with a land grab, that would set a precedent that China could use to enslave their neighbors.
If Russia falters, China takes up their position (even moreso) as the Great Superpower opposing the US.

China's been overtaking the Russians for years.

LordBaal

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #159 on: February 25, 2022, 06:57:26 pm »

UNSC??? Now you are quoting institutions from Halo?
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #160 on: February 25, 2022, 06:58:23 pm »

United
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Security
Council
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LordBaal

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #161 on: February 25, 2022, 06:58:54 pm »

No no no, United Nations Space Command.
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I'm curious as to how a tank would evolve. Would it climb out of the primordial ooze wiggling it's track-nubs, feeding on smaller jeeps before crawling onto the shore having evolved proper treds?
My ship exploded midflight, but all the shrapnel totally landed on Alpha Centauri before anyone else did.  Bow before me world leaders!

Flying Dice

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #162 on: February 25, 2022, 07:00:20 pm »

UNSC??? Now you are quoting institutions from Halo?
I suppose you think the US Marine Corps lifted their name and acronym from the Colonial Marines in Aliens too?
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scriver

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #163 on: February 25, 2022, 07:05:45 pm »

UNSC??? Now you are quoting institutions from Halo?
I suppose you think the US Marine Corps lifted their name and acronym from the Colonial Marines in Aliens too?

We all know that's exactly what happened, actually. The "crayon eater" meme comes from the part in which Private Hudson is seen chewing on a colourful pen during the wake up scene
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LordBaal

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Re: Not the WWIII thread (yet) (Ukraine)
« Reply #164 on: February 25, 2022, 07:10:52 pm »

UNSC??? Now you are quoting institutions from Halo?
I suppose you think the US Marine Corps lifted their name and acronym from the Colonial Marines in Aliens too?
Are there other Marines besides the Colonial Marines?
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I'm curious as to how a tank would evolve. Would it climb out of the primordial ooze wiggling it's track-nubs, feeding on smaller jeeps before crawling onto the shore having evolved proper treds?
My ship exploded midflight, but all the shrapnel totally landed on Alpha Centauri before anyone else did.  Bow before me world leaders!
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