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Author Topic: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)  (Read 71842 times)

McTraveller

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #810 on: March 13, 2022, 05:48:18 pm »

Are you talking about Russia asking about "help regarding the sanctions" or something else?

Please try to be specific... there's enough misinformation floating around as it is.
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hector13

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #811 on: March 13, 2022, 05:50:44 pm »

They’ve asked for military support (weapons, presumably) and economic support.

From a BBC report on one of those live pages:

Quote
Asked about media reports that Russia was asking China for military help, a spokesperson for the Chinese embassy in Washington says Beijing is focused on keeping the war in Ukraine from "getting out of control".

Reuters quoted embassy spokesperson Liu Pengyu as saying that "the situation in Ukraine is indeed disconcerting".

"The high priority now is to prevent the tense situation escalating or even getting out of control," he said.

Earlier on Sunday, the Financial Times and a number of other media outlets reported that US officials believe Russia has requested Chinese military supplies to help with the war effort, as well as economic support.

When asked about the reports, the spokesperson said that he "never heard of that".

US officials have warned that China would face consequences if it takes steps to help Russia evade sanctions.

China has so far publicly remained neutral in the conflict and refused to condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
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heydude6

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #812 on: March 13, 2022, 05:51:29 pm »

For what?

Nothing. Literally nothing.


You've got a point there, this video purported to summarize the reasons for invading Ukraine, but upon thinking, a lot of the points don't really measure up.

According to the video, Russia invaded Ukraine to:

  • Control the bottleneck that leads to the militarily vulnerable North European Plain in Russia, which consists of wide tracts of land that are too difficult to defend. (If there's any lesson to be learned here, it's that nukes are already enough of deterrence to prevent an invasion into Russia no matter the crimes it commits)
  • They don't want Ukraine to have access to the vast natural gas reserves in Crimea and potentially become a competitor to Russia in the energy market which is the lifeblood of its economy (Russia already had Crimea, and there was basically zero chance of Ukraine ever being able to retake it. Crimea is less secure now, than it was before the war. Plus, as a result of this war, Russia has incurred sanctions that have almost kicked it out of the energy market completely. Nice job Putin!)
  • They don't want to pay tarifs on the natural gas pipeline that runs through Ukraine in order to sell natural gas to Europe (Russia had already built alternative pipelines by this point, and were very close to phasing out their reliance on this pipe entirely. Waiting a few more years would have been smarter than a costly war)
  • They want to reopen the water canal to Crimea that Ukraine blocked off when it was annexed. Crimea's water issues have cost Russia a lot of money so they'd like to stop them now (As previously discussed in this thread, though the closing of the canal cost Crimea a lot of water, the biggest cause of the shortage is actually the fact that the remaining water is being used to feed agricultural exports rather than the citizens of the peninsula. With the sanctions now, the agricultural exports aren't really viable anymore so this problem had already solved itself. Albeit in an incredibly unprofitable way)
  • Putin wants to rebuild the USSR (The only credible reason, and the only real goal that has not been forfeited as a result of the sanctions. Ukraine may end up getting bombed into useless rubble, but if he does conquer it, at least there will be a piece of paper that says that he owns the country, even if it can be barely called as such. It's just ideological dick-waving though. In other words, this war truly is for nothing now)

This war is only being continued because if Putin admitted defeat, he would certainly lose his grip on power.

Long story short, don't blindly accept edutainment videos no matter how well-written they may be. Always use your critical thinking skills.
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The_Explorer

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #813 on: March 13, 2022, 05:56:22 pm »

They’ve asked for military support (weapons, presumably) and economic support.

From a BBC report on one of those live pages:

Quote
Asked about media reports that Russia was asking China for military help, a spokesperson for the Chinese embassy in Washington says Beijing is focused on keeping the war in Ukraine from "getting out of control".

Reuters quoted embassy spokesperson Liu Pengyu as saying that "the situation in Ukraine is indeed disconcerting".

"The high priority now is to prevent the tense situation escalating or even getting out of control," he said.

Earlier on Sunday, the Financial Times and a number of other media outlets reported that US officials believe Russia has requested Chinese military supplies to help with the war effort, as well as economic support.

When asked about the reports, the spokesperson said that he "never heard of that".

US officials have warned that China would face consequences if it takes steps to help Russia evade sanctions.

China has so far publicly remained neutral in the conflict and refused to condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

yeah, this. I should have linked the BBC thing on it

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60717902

a more lengthy thing on CNN about it

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/13/politics/jake-sullivan-meeting-chinese-counterpart-ukraine/index.html
« Last Edit: March 13, 2022, 05:59:29 pm by The_Explorer »
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Strongpoint

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #814 on: March 14, 2022, 12:30:05 am »

Isn't it funny how Russians are ready to become Chinese puppets just to kill as many Ukrainians as possible?
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #815 on: March 14, 2022, 12:41:49 am »

In this case, I think it has more to do with being on the tiger's back and reaching for something, anything, that will give you the chance to avoid being eaten when you fall off.
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MaxTheFox

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #816 on: March 14, 2022, 04:17:42 am »

Surprise surprise, Magmacube, people care when a mostly democratic country's sovereignty is violated by an authoritarian state led by a madman.
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martinuzz

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #817 on: March 14, 2022, 06:53:57 am »

China denies sorely that Russia has requested military aid.

EDIT: The pregnant woman from the iconic photo at the maternity ward bombing, that was carried away in a stretcher, has died, and her baby too.
In hospital they tried a ceasarean, but the baby was already dead when they got it out. The woman couldn't be saved, her pelvis was shattered and her hipbon torn.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2022, 07:14:23 am by martinuzz »
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Trapezohedron_

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #818 on: March 14, 2022, 08:42:41 am »

Isn't it funny how Russians are ready to become Chinese puppets just to kill as many Ukrainians as possible?

Funny and sad. I don't see a single point to this war beyond ego-stroking, and good lord he totally failed.

That being said, it's not a total failure given that each passing hour, more of Ukraine gets shelled. Hope he gets resolved soon.
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LordBaal

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #819 on: March 14, 2022, 02:07:35 pm »

RIP that baby an her mother.... for fucks sake....

The company I work with opened several posts in Ukraine to try to help there  with lots of local companies close rigth now. Well, while a lot of people applied, very few replied to our email and one even apologized he will not be able to keep the process because spends most of the day in a bomb shelter, and that he will be joining the army instead.
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LordBaal

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #821 on: March 14, 2022, 03:31:35 pm »

Which Russian state TV editor? We have no records of this man ever existing, its all capitalist propaganda.
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I'm curious as to how a tank would evolve. Would it climb out of the primordial ooze wiggling it's track-nubs, feeding on smaller jeeps before crawling onto the shore having evolved proper treds?
My ship exploded midflight, but all the shrapnel totally landed on Alpha Centauri before anyone else did.  Bow before me world leaders!

Vector

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #822 on: March 14, 2022, 03:41:23 pm »

Which Russian state TV editor? We have no records of this man ever existing, its all capitalist propaganda.

Quote
During an evening news broadcast on March 14, Channel One editor Marina Ovsyannikova ran on stage with an anti-war banner that read

Pasted while noticing that the joke probably flew over my head...
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Quarque

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #823 on: March 14, 2022, 04:41:43 pm »

RIP that baby an her mother.... for fucks sake....
Individual stories hit harder than numbers, eh? We're all too human, when it comes to that.
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Duuvian

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Re: Maybe the WWIII thread (soon) (Ukraine)
« Reply #824 on: March 14, 2022, 04:44:47 pm »

They’ve asked for military support (weapons, presumably) and economic support.

From a BBC report on one of those live pages:

Quote
Asked about media reports that Russia was asking China for military help, a spokesperson for the Chinese embassy in Washington says Beijing is focused on keeping the war in Ukraine from "getting out of control".

Reuters quoted embassy spokesperson Liu Pengyu as saying that "the situation in Ukraine is indeed disconcerting".

"The high priority now is to prevent the tense situation escalating or even getting out of control," he said.

Earlier on Sunday, the Financial Times and a number of other media outlets reported that US officials believe Russia has requested Chinese military supplies to help with the war effort, as well as economic support.

When asked about the reports, the spokesperson said that he "never heard of that".

US officials have warned that China would face consequences if it takes steps to help Russia evade sanctions.

China has so far publicly remained neutral in the conflict and refused to condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

yeah, this. I should have linked the BBC thing on it

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60717902

a more lengthy thing on CNN about it

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/13/politics/jake-sullivan-meeting-chinese-counterpart-ukraine/index.html

Has anyone else noticed that anti-China stories hit the news at crucial diplomatic intervals?

I mention that because apparently at a pre-scheduled 7 hour meeting meeting Jake Sullivan or whatever the US negotiator was asked China about it. I truly would like better relations with China and while I was not there at the meeting or know what was discussed I was concerned by an interview on the news that the US negotiator was taking a harder angle than I would prefer. I think this is an opportunity for both countries to begin work on a closer relationship, and I urge US officials to pursue positive dialogue with China and show respect for actions that work towards peace in Ukraine. This is a golden opportunity for China and the US to forge a new century of closer ties. I ask humbly and with the world's interest at heart, please do not help Putin by driving a wedge between the US and China.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2022, 04:46:36 pm by Duuvian »
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