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Author Topic: Dominions 5 Round 05 - Finished, Na'Ba victorious  (Read 34689 times)

E. Albright

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Re: Dominions 5 Round 05 - Recruiting
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2022, 12:44:11 pm »

I'd be fine with Valanis. I thought it was important enough as a map for the community to go to the trouble of winterizing it, after all. :p

Since it's not a wrapped map, connectivity is immediately reduced dramatically - max distance b/tw two points on an unwrapped map is generally ~2/3s that of a 1D wrap or ~1/2 of a 2D wrap. I hadn't suggested Valanis b/c I've seen it held in contempt by a lot of people, but I've always liked it. The size is probably a bit better than Edowyn TBH.

If you want something that's more connected but not wrapped, I've always had a soft spot in my heart for Sharivar (because it's pretty). The province count is a bit higher than Valanis (and certainly Snerdyn) but lower than Edowyn. It's also less chokepointed than the original Dom2 or revised Dom3 version since rivers and mountains aren't perforce impassable. That's not on Steam, but the winterized/rivers/mountains/roads version I uploaded to Dominionmods was still available last I checked, and/or I could upload it to Steam myself, ugh. Sharivar would be best w/o any UW nation, but it can handle 1.

Well, of course a map with the wrong number of players will give unbalanced starts, without a map specifically generated to the number of players and the specific nations and with fixed starts you'll never get a really balanced start in a map.

The problem is that the number of players that are recommended for popular high-connectivity maps is pretty much still just derived from province count w/o accounting for how much worse the engine necessarily does w/start positions when connectivity is high. A highcon map will consistently produce worse starting positions than a lowcon map with the same number of provinces at the provinces/player numbers that are popular, b/c those numbers were fixed in the community's mind before Dom4, when connectivity was typically 2/3s what it is now with wrap being less common (but rituals had no range limits). It's easy to measure player load in terms of province per player, so the tendency has been to just kinda pretend that's the only relevant factor and assumed that if a map performs worse than expected for a given province/player count it's b/c the map is "bad" rather than considering the limits of that metric.

I feel tempted to blame the age-old issue of division of talents: creative people who can do the hard work of making the graphical map aren't necessarily the same abstruse people who can (or want to) do the hard work of calculating the obnoxious graph theory ramifications of how the maps are put together...
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EuchreJack

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Re: Dominions 5 Round 05 - Recruiting
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2022, 01:39:56 am »

Unless anyone else wants to play MA Mictlan, I'll make a formal claim to that nation.

kriv02

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Re: Dominions 5 Round 05 - Recruiting
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2022, 03:07:01 am »

I'll take Agartha. For maps, I suggest Floating Archipelago, but I'm fine with whatever.
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kriv02

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Re: Dominions 5 Round 05 - Recruiting
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2022, 03:11:25 am »

Btw, what's the standard way of conducting diplo here?
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MCreeper

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Re: Dominions 5 Round 05 - Recruiting
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2022, 04:10:20 am »

Btw, what's the standard way of conducting diplo here?
Through forum personal messages.

Looks like Valanis is fine now, though i wonder if RexMundi is still in. He has'nt been on forum for three days.  :-\
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Dominions 5 Round 05 - Recruiting
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2022, 07:40:56 am »

The steam version of Valanis ('the finn revision') is ok?
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MCreeper

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Re: Dominions 5 Round 05 - Recruiting
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2022, 12:31:04 pm »

I have no clue what it is, but see no reason why it isn't.
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The helicopter is rent apart by the collision, its steel unable to resist its inevitable reunion with the ground, and the meat within is smashed by the crumpling cockpit beyond any practical hope of recovery. What comes up, must come down again. Ore and ape, returned to mother planet's embrace.

Il Palazzo

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Re: Dominions 5 Round 05 - Recruiting
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2022, 12:31:51 pm »

It's the only version of valanis in steam workshop.
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MCreeper

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Re: Dominions 5 Round 05 - Recruiting
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2022, 02:08:22 pm »

Well, Finn it is. I created the game page, you may send in pretenders.
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The helicopter is rent apart by the collision, its steel unable to resist its inevitable reunion with the ground, and the meat within is smashed by the crumpling cockpit beyond any practical hope of recovery. What comes up, must come down again. Ore and ape, returned to mother planet's embrace.

E. Albright

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Re: Dominions 5 Round 05 - Recruiting
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2022, 02:54:05 pm »

Yeah, I put Valanis Winterized in the maps subforum before the workshop was added, but didn't want to be bothered w/keeping it up to date after the workshop got added. As far as I know, the "Finn" version is essentially the same as the "winterized" version that I made, which was the same as the original plus some permeable border stuff plus the winter map. If I had to guess, I'd say the "revision" part is making the mountain peak on the middle island not have mountain borders - that's the only change I see. It should be fine.

Re: what diplomacy is, the standard we normally abide by is "only binding WRT trades" - if you agree to trade gold/reagents/items, you're bound to follow through as promised. There's generally a "soft" rule not to overrun anyone during the first year. We don't play many games on this forum, so it's always been considered polite to let people have a chance to play before killing them off.

(Uggggggh, and this means I need to decide on a nation, doesn't it? Fine, I'll pick something before tonight.)
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USEC_OFFICER

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Re: Dominions 5 Round 05 - Recruiting
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2022, 06:28:09 pm »

Dumb question: Is Valanis suitable for an underwater nation or not? There's an obvious 'capital goes here' province, but the long, snaking river suggests otherwise. I just want confirmation because I'm eyeing some underwater nations and am wondering if it's worth the hassle.
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Criptfeind

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Re: Dominions 5 Round 05 - Recruiting
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2022, 07:24:54 pm »

I feel like it'll be fine? Like, your forts won't be perfect as far as resource utilization goes, but you have a 20 province water system and some good potential for carving out land enclaves with no one else to pressure you to take the water. So you'll be able to make up for lost resources by the sheer size of a nation you'll be able to carve out for yourself. Power projection might be an issue eventually, but at least the water system is out in the middle of the map, so it shouldn't be too bad.
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Dominions 5 Round 05 - Recruiting
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2022, 07:27:32 pm »

Keeping dominion up might be a problem.
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E. Albright

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Re: Dominions 5 Round 05 - Recruiting
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2022, 07:43:00 pm »

UW is feasible. Theoretically you could fit two into it but it'd be messy. The first B12 Dom4 game had R'lyeh almost stomp everyone on this map. (Speaking of that game - you'll not have UW to yourself; kriv02 will be a major contender for it. MA Argartha does a good job of projecting power UW on this map.) It doesn't have any non-coast ocean, but it's A LOT better for a UW nation than many popular maps since it at least has a long, contiguous ocean. As Il Palazzo points out, dominion will always be something you need to pay attention to, but that's true for UW nations on any popular map.

Meh, I'll bite the bullet and take Man. Might as well force myself outside of my comfort zone.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2022, 07:56:26 pm by E. Albright »
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USEC_OFFICER

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Re: Dominions 5 Round 05 - Recruiting
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2022, 07:48:35 pm »

Power projection is always an issue for underwater nations, but the long, snakey ocean does make me worry about what will happen when thugs/waterbreathing items comes online.

Since it seems viable, I'll test out the two underwater nations I have my eyes on. I might decide that I hate them and pick something else, but we'll see.
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