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[EuchreJack]

So no right to property in your civil rights then?

[MaxTheFox]

So no right to property in your civil rights then?

If you own more than a billion dollars. No, I do not believe in absolute freedom.

[EuchreJack]

So no right to property in your civil rights then?

If you own more than a billion dollars. No, I do not believe in absolute freedom.

Make it 5 billion and I can safely concede the argument.  With the hyperinflation we're seeing, One billion might not be enough (but I'm probably being WAY too optimistic, as I'm currently below the median salary).

I'm actually intrigued by the thought exercise of what people would do if their personal wealth could not exceed 5 billion dollars.  While it rubs against my personal views of right to property, and it's basically impossible in the US, I could see it having a net benefit.  Anyone nearing 5 billion dollars would have to spread it out rather than horde it, or invest in hording it somewhere that could probably use the money.

[martinuzz]

Lol, 1 billion is more than anyone spend in a lifetime, inflation or not. At least in the Western world.
It is a thousand millions.

[EuchreJack]

Lol, 1 billion is more than anyone spend in a lifetime, inflation or not. At least in the Western world.
It is a thousand millions.

Eh, lack of imagination.  Plus I imagine if I had a billion dollars, I'd have 1 +??? other folks to live on it too.
Anything worth having in the Western World costs a Million Dollars.  I imagine it would go quick.

For comparison, if I were to win One Million Dollars*, I already know how I'd spend every last penny.  It would be gone in a year, and I'd still be working.
*Granted, I calculated the taxes out of that, so it's only like $333,000.  Which makes me sad, as I'd be out of money once I paid off my student loans and bought a house.
A semi-large building (ONE building) costs One Million Dollars.  How many of such buildings exist in ONE city? How many Cities are in the US?

[MaxTheFox]

Lol, 1 billion is more than anyone spend in a lifetime, inflation or not. At least in the Western world.
It is a thousand millions.

Eh, lack of imagination.  Plus I imagine if I had a billion dollars, I'd have 1 +??? other folks to live on it too.
Anything worth having in the Western World costs a Million Dollars.  I imagine it would go quick.

What kind of things do you want to buy regularly that cost so much? lol. lmao. Again, a billion is a thousand millions. And once you drop below that you could still earn more. That is more than enough to live a satisfying life unless you are extremely greedy in which case I don't know what to say.

[EuchreJack]

^^See edits.

[MaxTheFox]

^^See edits.

So you want to own several large buildings? For what reason? Just to own them?

[EuchreJack]

You know, I think Elon Musk is my best argument against all this.  And to think, before this discussion I really didn't like the guy.

If we did what you propose, Elon would have retired 10 years ago, as he wouldn't be able to make any more money.  Maybe sooner, I'm not his biographer.
But instead, we're back in SPACE.  Maybe that is why High Capitalism is under attack.  It's actually achieved something worth attacking!

Now that I realize I'm actually on the winning side, I'll just moonwalk out of this conversation.

[EuchreJack]

^^See edits.

So you want to own several large buildings? For what reason? Just to own them?

You see, we have these large buildings called Factories where people work and Offices where other people work...
Note that our government typically doesn't own Factories or Offices used by private citizens, ergo someone else has to own them.

[Frumple]

You see, we have these large buildings called Factories where people work and Offices where other people work...
Note that our government typically doesn't own Factories or Offices used by private citizens, ergo someone else has to own them.

... and it generally isn't one person, being owned by groups that have organized into corporations (or non-profits, or cooperatives, or whatever), or with some number of people having temporary stake by way of debt issuance. All things still possible if there ain't excessive concentration of wealth into the hands of individuals.

Like, you've clearly given up on even trying, here, but now you've hit the stage you're trotting stuff out that actively undermines the point you're claiming to make.

[MaxTheFox]

You know, I think Elon Musk is my best argument against all this.  And to think, before this discussion I really didn't like the guy.

If we did what you propose, Elon would have retired 10 years ago, as he wouldn't be able to make any more money.  Maybe sooner, I'm not his biographer.
But instead, we're back in SPACE.  Maybe that is why High Capitalism is under attack.  It's actually achieved something worth attacking!

Now that I realize I'm actually on the winning side, I'll just moonwalk out of this conversation.

Elon could be worse but everything he ever did, plans to do, and more could have been done by NASA if it wasn't underfunded. I'd rather the state than corporations explore space because I inherently distrust large corporations more than I do the state, provided that the state isn't a dystopian hellhole.

^^See edits.

So you want to own several large buildings? For what reason? Just to own them?

You see, we have these large buildings called Factories where people work and Offices where other people work...
Note that our government typically doesn't own Factories or Offices used by private citizens, ergo someone else has to own them.

One billion is still more than enough. Sure you wouldn't be able to infinitely accumulate stuff but I find that perfectly acceptable. Sometimes hard ceilings are fine.

[EuchreJack]

You know, I think Elon Musk is my best argument against all this.  And to think, before this discussion I really didn't like the guy.

If we did what you propose, Elon would have retired 10 years ago, as he wouldn't be able to make any more money.  Maybe sooner, I'm not his biographer.
But instead, we're back in SPACE.  Maybe that is why High Capitalism is under attack.  It's actually achieved something worth attacking!

Now that I realize I'm actually on the winning side, I'll just moonwalk out of this conversation.

Elon could be worse but everything he ever did, plans to do, and more could have been done by NASA if it wasn't underfunded. I'd rather the state than corporations explore space because I inherently distrust large corporations more than I do the state, provided that the state isn't a dystopian hellhole.

Yes but NASA only recently got said funding because Elon was making them look bad.  If not for Elon, America would be content to let NASA do nothing.
Also, where is the competition? NASA only did great things because they had a competitor.  Once that ended, public enthusiasm dried up.

If I distrusted both Corporations and States, I would push for Corporations to explore Space because States can Regulate/Control/Check Corporations whereas Corporations can't do that to States.  Realizing we can't determine how good or bad the State will be that profits the most from space exploration/exploitation.

[EuchreJack]

You see, we have these large buildings called Factories where people work and Offices where other people work...
Note that our government typically doesn't own Factories or Offices used by private citizens, ergo someone else has to own them.

... and it generally isn't one person, being owned by groups that have organized into corporations (or non-profits, or cooperatives, or whatever), or with some number of people having temporary stake by way of debt issuance. All things still possible if there ain't excessive concentration of wealth into the hands of individuals.

Uh no.
What we see more is Individuals that have Incorporated as Sole Shareholder in the ownership of the buildings at the 1 million dollar range.
You know people can do that, right?
(Also, I'm assuming you're smart enough to count my stock shares in my personal assets, otherwise half a billion would be fine as only my house would be a "personal asset", and the rest would be sole corps).

As for debt issuance being anything, I'm pretty sure if I had a profitable balance sheet, I could get a bank to finance a building.  The bank doesn't give a fuck what I do with the building, so long as the payments are timely.

[EuchreJack]

To clarify, here is the point that I am making:
If I should ever find myself a billionaire, I would kindly like you all to fuck off in your demands on me. 
I'll undoubtedly have enough people making demands on me if I accumulate anywhere near that amount, as how else would I accumulate it?

We're not talking inheritance.  We're talking money that I earned, one way or other.