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Author Topic: Playground of the Gods / Kaynan God / Turn 3 Strategy  (Read 10411 times)

NUKE9.13

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Re: Playground of the Gods / Kaynan God / Turn 0 Design
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2022, 04:41:01 pm »

[Avatar]'s Reimbursement: Magic ain't free. That power has to come from somewhere- the magical planes, to be precise. It does, however, appear to be a one-way transaction. Magic comes out, but nothing goes in. This is an injustice. [Avatar] seeks to rectify this issue, by having its mortal followers offer tribute to the magical planes to pay for the magic they use. This tribute may take the form of gold and silver, metal tools, barrels of grain- whatever. [Avatar]'s Reimbursement is a ritual that reverses the usual exchange of energy- it is a spell with a negative yield, as it were, consuming the tribute in exchange for nothing. This tribute can, conveniently, be used to bribe subsidise our allies in the magical planes.
Use of the ritual is not actually required in order to use magic, but [Avatar] will enforce regular usage.


(Replace [Avatar] with the avatar's name, once decided)
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A_Curious_Cat

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Re: Playground of the Gods / Kaynan God / Turn 0 Design
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2022, 05:22:04 pm »

[Avatar]'s Reimbursement: Magic ain't free. That power has to come from somewhere- the magical planes, to be precise. It does, however, appear to be a one-way transaction. Magic comes out, but nothing goes in. This is an injustice. [Avatar] seeks to rectify this issue, by having its mortal followers offer tribute to the magical planes to pay for the magic they use. This tribute may take the form of gold and silver, metal tools, barrels of grain- whatever. [Avatar]'s Reimbursement is a ritual that reverses the usual exchange of energy- it is a spell with a negative yield, as it were, consuming the tribute in exchange for nothing. This tribute can, conveniently, be used to bribe subsidise our allies in the magical planes.
Use of the ritual is not actually required in order to use magic, but [Avatar] will enforce regular usage.


(Replace [Avatar] with the avatar's name, once decided)

I see a system similar to “do ut des” with the Kaynan god acting as an intermediary between the mortal and magical planes.

I.e.:

1.  The mortals pray to the Kaynan god, requesting divine assistance in return for sacrifices.
2.  The Kaynan god requests specific magic from the beings of the magical realm in order to help the mortals, and offers the beings part of the sacrifices in return.
3.  The beings accept and the trade occurs.
4.  The Kaynan god provides the mortals with divine assistance (either by giving them the magic directly, or by using them to bestow blessings/perform miracles -see note-).
5.  The mortals thank the Kaynan god by offering more sacrifices and the cycle repeats.

Note:  it’s also possible that the mortals might not have any true magical ability, with their “spells” actually being prayers to the Kaynan god (with the Kaynan god intervening to complete the spell).
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Man of Paper

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Re: Playground of the Gods / Kaynan God / Turn 0 Design
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2022, 12:16:23 pm »

To start giving youse a feel for difficulty levels with proposals, the Reimbursement is firmly a Trivial design. It’s as basic a spell as you can get, and doesn’t aim to do anything flashy or complex in the slightest sense.
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Playground of the Gods / Kaynan God / Turn 0 Design
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2022, 01:27:49 pm »

What about Spin's proposals?
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Man of Paper

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Re: Playground of the Gods / Kaynan God / Turn 0 Design
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2022, 01:48:41 pm »

I intentionally missed those to see if you were paying attention.

Chains of the Contract is pretty Normal. It's a logical step forward from the influence tactic you have now.
Unwording Magic is Theoretical to Impossible. Current magical ability sits firmly at "wow I can fire this ball of magic out of my hand", so it's probably safe to say that taking over and manipulating an entire body is well out of the scope of the current "tech level" of magic.
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Playground of the Gods / Kaynan God / Turn 0 Design
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2022, 02:10:55 pm »

In light of Reimbursement being Trivial, I edited it:

[Avatar]'s Reimbursement (stronger connection version): Magic ain't free. That power has to come from somewhere- the magical planes, to be precise. It does, however, appear to be a one-way transaction. Magic comes out, but nothing goes in. This is an injustice. [Avatar] seeks to rectify this issue, by having its mortal followers offer tribute to the magical planes to pay for the magic they use. This tribute may take the form of gold and silver, metal tools, barrels of grain- whatever. [Avatar]'s Reimbursement is a ritual that opens a two-way channel between the mortal plane and a magical plane of choice. The tribute goes to the magical plane, and the caster's connection to that plane is strengthened, allowing them to call upon more powerful magic in the future. The tribute can, conveniently, be used to bribe subsidise our allies in the magical planes- distributed at [Avatar]'s discretion.

Also, a mundane thing that is fairly theme-agnostic:

Huscarls: The traditional house guards of the Eastern Empire, protected by iron chainmail*, wielding an axe and shield (the shield being of higher quality than those given to the chaff). They are dedicated warriors, who spend much of their spare time training their skill at arms. Most have previously fought in small-scale battles within the Eastern continent- feuds, uprisings, border skirmishes-, meaning they know what war entails. Being hand-picked by their masters (with most lords having no more than a few dozen, though more powerful lords may have hundreds), they are justifiably proud of their position, and are willing to die on the battlefield if necessary.
Now that [Avatar] has made itself known, the lords of the East have put their Huscarls at its disposal. While their numbers cannot match those of the militia, their superior armament, skill, and morale make them a significantly greater threat than some peasant with a spear.


Also also, it occurs that I didn't point out in my avatar proposal that while Evivizet obviously has a good affinity for Air and Water, it can also work with the other elements as needed. Currents can be reliable, or they can be unpredictable. Fire moves all the time, and even Earth can be set in motion (also, tectonic activity is just very slow currents). When I say specialised, I don't mean locked into one or two elements, I just mean it has a distinct theme to build off of.
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Kashyyk

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Re: Playground of the Gods / Kaynan God / Turn 0 Design
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2022, 02:51:43 pm »

The Illithids are said to have Lizardfolk slaves. Does that mean, if we ally with them, we can also deploy units of Lizardfolk slave soldiers (and thus have a species template for both)?

Elemental Smite
Instead of lobbing raw blobs of arcane energy like an amateur, the Elemental Smite uses the energy to collect and concentrate rlemental energy from the surroundings before launching git forward. The novice caster will only be able to manipulate the element they are most attuned to, however more capable casters will be able to control multiple, or even all elements. This should give us a good foundation for further Elemental spells and circumvent the defences earned by a caster ability to control arcane energy.
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Man of Paper

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Re: Playground of the Gods / Kaynan God / Turn 0 Design
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2022, 03:28:28 pm »

Nope. That’s their specific relationship in that plane. The ones you make aren’t affiliated to them in any way whatsoever and so they won’t ever have lizardfolk retinues unless you somehow manage to find a way to make lizardfolk too

Edit: more estimates incoming, dealing with angy baby

The Real Edit:

The stronger Reimbursement is Normal, since it's also meant to be taking something (magic) from the planes in exchange.
Huscarls are Hard, since they're mundane troops with limited numbers but are highly trained and come with a full set of gear better than the crap on-hand presently.
Elemental Smite is Very Hard. While it doesn't necessarily ask for a whole lot in the way of new magical power, it does have a very wide scope in the sense that you could ultimately boil this down to being six very separate revisions to the Arcane Bolt (one for each plane). It is possible, but it's definitely a question of action economy vs individual effectiveness
« Last Edit: January 26, 2022, 04:56:40 pm by Man of Paper »
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Rockeater

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Re: Playground of the Gods / Kaynan God / Turn 0 Design
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2022, 05:59:14 pm »

Not sure it will be possible now, but I think it will be useful
Camouflage (Influence)
Having someone listen in on the plans of their enemy will be worth a lot for all species in the planes, the issue is that humans don't look much like anything besides humans, to temporary remedy that we created this spell, with it, a spell caster can make themselves look like an object they studied well enough for a period of a few hours with constant maintenance, which in the right place will allow them to hopefully listen in on the talking of the enemy.
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Maximum Spin

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Re: Playground of the Gods / Kaynan God / Turn 0 Design
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2022, 07:14:06 pm »

Avatar proposal: WAND WOLF
-Name: The Wolf of Wands
-Appearance: An incredibly aged man carrying a basket of fruit from which he occasionally eats. The fruit appears to be endless.
-Base Location: The Wolf of Wands resides in a giant structure jutting out of the sea, carved into monolithic obsidian. The structure is like a termite mound of little passageways and chambers of every possible size, all curled up among themselves. Since becoming a stronghold for the human followers, helpful signs have been added to provide directions. The main entrance can also be sealed up with an obsidian door, for those difficult times.
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Playground of the Gods / Kaynan God / Turn 0 Design
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2022, 02:46:14 pm »

Quote
Whiskey Jack
Quote
The Wolf of Wands
I feel like there must be some rationale behind these names and associated appearances/locations... but I can't for the life of me figure out what that might be. They appear to be random nonsense.

Anyway. We should probably move towards deciding on our actions- although more proposals are always good. I think we technically don't have to lock in our avatar choice until the revision phase, but I think it'd be good to vote on it now anyway, to get a better idea of where preferences lie.
There's no combat this turn, so we don't need to worry if a design doesn't work out perfectly. Now would be a good time to do foundational designs- things that we can build upon in the coming turns, not necessarily things that will be immediately useful. [Avatar]'s Reimbursement (stronger connection version) is intended to be such a foundational design, as gaining access to mortal materials in the magical planes would allow us to design tactics that use these materials for various ends (eg, arming rebel lizardmen on the Water plane, bribing politicians on the Air plane, building embassies in all planes).
Huscarls aren't as foundational, actually. It might be better to do something regarding logistics or production instead- not providing better armed soldiers right away, but making it easier to deploy them later.

Revisions aren't going to be good for foundational work. The difficulty check for Elemental Smite provides a lead on a good revision to work on- revising Arcane Bolt into an elemental variant. While less action-efficient, it's likely to be relatively easy, and provide a decent upgrade to our offensive magic (that could be used as a stepping stone towards a more advanced spell). If we did a logistical design, another revision could be slightly improving the equipment of our militia soldiers.


E: Three possible foundational infrastructure/production designs. All basically the same idea, just different flavours. If anyone has a more interesting take on the basic concept, that'd be nice.

[Avatar]'s Tithe: The East has long been a decentralised region. Now that [Avatar] has claimed dominion over it, though, this must begin to change. The war with the Auran followers to the West will require many resources. Establishing centralised control over the entire region is perhaps too ambitious, even for [Avatar], but less extreme measures can still bring great benefits. Requiring the lords of the East to pay a modest tithe should not cause undue disruption, and should suffice to finance an expansion of the war effort for the near future.

###

[Avatar]'s Workshops: Though the East is rich in resources, they are under-exploited. Decentralisation, crude production methods, and shoddy transportation combine into a significant dearth of resources for [Avatar]'s regime. In order to equip the armies that will vanquish Auran's followers, production must be increased. [Avatar] will gather the greatest craftsmen of the East, provide them with a plethora of apprentices, and have them establish workshops in key locations. These workshops will acquire local resources, process them with efficiency, and convey a sizeable portion of the finished goods to [Base Location] (the rest are re-invested into the local community to ensure productivity grows as the war intensifies).

###

[Avatar]'s Roads: Three things matter in war: logistics, logistics, logistics. [Avatar]'s first command to its followers is seemingly mundane- laying roads, building bridges, and establishing ports throughout the East. Yet doing so will grow the economy of the whole region, and ensure that the fruits of this growth can be efficiently transported to where they are needed, allowing soldiers to be moved, fed, and equipped with ease. Even the mightiest empire cannot function without a solid foundation- an early investment into infrastructure will provide great dividends in the years to come.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2022, 03:17:13 pm by NUKE9.13 »
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Kashyyk

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Re: Playground of the Gods / Kaynan God / Turn 0 Design
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2022, 04:25:00 pm »

I figured I'd have a go at some infrastructure designs.

Monastries of Penance: As the Lords of the East claim judicial authority over physical matters, Kaynan, through [Avatar], claims judicial authority over all spiritual matters. These could be as slight as blasphemy, or as severe as the greatest heresies. In any case, appointed representative of [Avatar] will sentence criminals to serve for a time in a Monastry of Penance.

In these hallowed chambers the guilty will wash away their sins through hard labour in the service of Kaynan. Pulling ore from the earth, tending crops, hauling heavy loads, they reaffirm their faith in the eyes of Kaynan and themselves,  and in so doing, they provide valuable material in the war against the heretics of Auran.

###

Carrack of Kaynan: Whilst a great many devout followers have claimed Aur'Kayn in the name of Kaynan, only so many people have both the freedom and the ability to uproot their lives in service. The empire we left behind is still a valuable ally however, and by building great ocean-going ships we can secure strong trade routes that bring valuable finished goods and additional settlers to help us claim the rest of the continent.
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Playground of the Gods / Kaynan God / Turn 0 Design
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2022, 05:14:19 pm »

The Monasteries is a more interesting take, although it would lock us in to a darker shade of morally grey. I would personally be okay with it, but I’d understand if others would rather not veer in that direction this early.

I don’t know if there are off-map continents to trade with, so I dunno if the Carrack makes sense. Although, it does give me an idea- perhaps it would be possible to create an interplanar trade network. While it wouldn’t be as beneficial for influence (as compared to tribute), trade would bolster relations, whilst enriching both us and our allies. It would probably be tricky to set up, but it could be a great opening move.

E:

The Planar Trade Network: Greed may or may not be good, but it is definitely a powerful force. [Avatar] seeks to exploit this, by establishing interplanar trade routes that will allow all to enrich themselves, in exchange for gratitude to [Avatar] (and a sizeable tariff).
Six gates are to be built in [Base], each linked to one of the elemental planes. These gates are not permanently open, but can be activated one at a time by a cabal of mages, allowing for a modest amount of cargo to be exchanged. Merchants on both sides of the gate must negotiate with [Avatar] (or its representatives) to make use of it, both by paying a portion of their cargo as a tariff and putting in a good word with their fellows.
As the resources available on each elemental plane vary greatly, the profits of interplanar trade are expected to be considerable.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2022, 05:33:18 pm by NUKE9.13 »
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Man of Paper

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Re: Playground of the Gods / Kaynan God / Turn 0 Design
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2022, 07:05:29 pm »

Camouflage is somewhere around Very Hard, with a lot based on clarifying if it's more an illusory thing or an actual transformation.
Tithe, Workshops, Roads, and Monasteries are all Easy. They're pretty solid, simple ways to achieve the same general goal, and all provide a foundation to build on without trying to exploit everything themselves.
The Carracks are somewhere abouts Hard. Unlike the previous four options, Carracks also provides, well, Carracks on top of discovering and negotiating potential trade routes and whatever benefits or drawbacks that could imply.
Magic StargatesPlanar Trade Network seems Normal to me. It's just a trade depot with magic flavor.
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Playground of the Gods / Kaynan God / Turn 0 Design
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2022, 11:23:17 am »

Another foundational thing, this one totally focused on influence (the Trade Network being a hybrid thing).

Planar Diplomats: [Avatar] cannot be everywhere at once. Well, not without stretching their consciousness to the point of uselessness, anyway. So to maintain a constant connection with the elemental planes requires that [Avatar] appoint diplomats to negotiate in its stead. Unfortunately, the only available option right now is humans- squishy, crude humans. Well, needs must. By providing magical cloaks that partially attune the wearer with a given element, humans can survive well enough upon the elemental planes to operate. They are chosen from those with a talent for diplomacy- even if it isn't a spectacular talent-, given the aforementioned cloaks and a badge imparted with [Avatar]'s energy (so they are recognised as its servants), and sent on their way.
Their task is, for now, rather simple- maintain communication with the denizens of the elemental planes [Avatar] has made contact with, doing what they can to improve the relationship when opportunities arise, and providing reports to [Avatar] as to the desires of the denizens.

I'm going to start a votebox, since there don't seem to be a whole lot more proposals forthcoming.
Quote from: Votebox
Avatar (not final vote)
Whiskey Jack, the Lord of Lines: ()
Limkeer Alnan, The Record Keeper: (1) A_Curious_Cat
Evivizet, The Current: (1) NUKE9.13
The Wolf of Wands: ()

Designs (pick two)
The Planar Trade Network: (1) NUKE9.13
Planar Diplomats: (1) NUKE9.13
(obviously there are many more options in this category)
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