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Author Topic: Dwarves channeling, but then auto mining without designation?  (Read 1610 times)

Urist_McUrist

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Dwarves channeling, but then auto mining without designation?
« on: January 01, 2022, 02:19:34 pm »
Hello Dwarves, been a long time since I've been around, but I'M BACK.

And unfortunately having some issues. Currently, I am trying to channel the top of a hill off, and for some reason, after a miner channels one tile, the tiles beneath get automatically designated to be mined, bellow the channel designations... which as you can imagine has lead me to having collapse issues and mangled miners. I have them channeling from the top precisely to avoid the issue of collapse, but i can not figure out why they decide by themselves to start mining the layer below before channeling from above.

Anyone know what the deal is?

So to rephrase cuz my explanations can be less than clear. Im trying to remove the very top layer of a hill by using channel on just the top layer. After channeling one tile, the top layer is being automatically designated for mining, as though i had designated automing ore/gems, leaving the roof layer, still designated for channeling. Which is causing cave ins as the dwarves choose to mine the stuff i never told them to first, then chop off pieces by channeling. I had designated some coal to be auto mined, before i cancelled that and decided to just remove the whole layer with channeling.

Its been YEARS since ive been around, so ive jumped many version updates, and this is a new problem to me.

Please help, you are Urists only hope!
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I am an angry person. It's true. Anti-social misanthrope with a complete lack of an ability to tolerate stupidity. So if you say something stupid to me, or try and insinuate I must just be misunderstanding or doing something wrong, I will probably yell at you. Always take me at my word when I explain something. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm simply being honest, in a world where the average intellect is potato. Unhelpful patronizing "help", deserves a snappy retort. Grow some thicker skin.

DwarfStar

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Re: Dwarves channeling, but then auto mining without designation?
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2022, 04:45:44 pm »
When you channel, that does remove two layers of rock. You might want to carefully read this article and see if that helps understand what is happening.

https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Channel
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Salmeuk

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Re: Dwarves channeling, but then auto mining without designation?
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2022, 07:07:21 pm »
I believe you are misinterpreting the cause of the cave-ins, as on a theoretical infinite and untouched z-plane of stone, mass channeling would never lead to a cave-in since the action of removing the "floor" and "tile below that floor" occurs in the same moment. make sure you have removed ALL overhanging, unsupported floor tiles before mass channeling, and frankly just never use the channel designation tool.

I have two rules for large-scale terrain deformation:

1. never dig or mine beforehand, as a hill littered with tunnels is a deathtrap.

2. work one layer at a time from the top, and use ramp designations not channels. not only are ramp designations safer, as the dwarf approaches and digs the tile from below, but the designation symbol is easier to parse when looking for potentially deadly mistakes.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2022, 07:08:53 pm by Salmeuk »
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Urist_McUrist

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Re: Dwarves channeling, but then auto mining without designation?
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2022, 10:35:05 pm »
Jeez guys. No. I thought i was pretty clear but i guess not. Channeling removes the floor you designated and the block below, i know how it works. The issue is that after channeling ONE tile, the dwarves then began automatically designating and mining the block layer, leaving the roof above, which they then go back up top and channel out, causing the floor/roof to cave in.

Thanks for trying to help at least i guess.
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I am an angry person. It's true. Anti-social misanthrope with a complete lack of an ability to tolerate stupidity. So if you say something stupid to me, or try and insinuate I must just be misunderstanding or doing something wrong, I will probably yell at you. Always take me at my word when I explain something. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm simply being honest, in a world where the average intellect is potato. Unhelpful patronizing "help", deserves a snappy retort. Grow some thicker skin.

Urist_McUrist

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Re: Dwarves channeling, but then auto mining without designation?
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2022, 11:37:31 pm »
Here is a link to an Imgur album which SHOULD help elucidate the issue.

https://imgur.com/a/1IfaHTa
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I am an angry person. It's true. Anti-social misanthrope with a complete lack of an ability to tolerate stupidity. So if you say something stupid to me, or try and insinuate I must just be misunderstanding or doing something wrong, I will probably yell at you. Always take me at my word when I explain something. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm simply being honest, in a world where the average intellect is potato. Unhelpful patronizing "help", deserves a snappy retort. Grow some thicker skin.

Salmeuk

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Re: Dwarves channeling, but then auto mining without designation?
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2022, 12:24:37 am »
well, hmm, I genuinely attempted to help. "I had designated some coal to be auto mined, before i cancelled that and decided to just remove the whole layer with channeling."
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

there could be some kind of bug related to this previous action, where the automine designation is somehow left attached to the rock invisibly. I would simply abandon the hill and look for fresh soil. if you can reproduce this event it might be worth reporting on the tracker
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Urist_McUrist

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Re: Dwarves channeling, but then auto mining without designation?
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2022, 12:30:38 am »
So its an unknown bug. Got it. Thanks.

Im gonna try and channel an unrelated tile somewhere else and pray that it isnt so bugged that they try and kill themselves everywhere everytime now.

I was intending on making this hilltop the entrance to a proper fortress, currently the little bearded bastards are living in a ramshackle hole in the ground, just waiting for an unexpected expected delivery of fun.

Thanks for the attempt at help, ive been away for so long i wasnt sure if it was a known issue.
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I am an angry person. It's true. Anti-social misanthrope with a complete lack of an ability to tolerate stupidity. So if you say something stupid to me, or try and insinuate I must just be misunderstanding or doing something wrong, I will probably yell at you. Always take me at my word when I explain something. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm simply being honest, in a world where the average intellect is potato. Unhelpful patronizing "help", deserves a snappy retort. Grow some thicker skin.

Urist_McUrist

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Re: Dwarves channeling, but then auto mining without designation?
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2022, 12:55:08 am »
No issue in another area. So its not unplayably bugged at least. I shall try using the ramp tool and see if i can level the hilltop i suppose. If anyone reading this would like to see if they can duplicate the issue and make a bug report, that would be swell. My computer doesnt have internet, or a mouse, so me doing a proper bug report is tediousness i do not desire.

I came to this by designating some coal to be automined, then cancelling that designation and switching to channeling from above, the dwarves then decide that after channeling, all stone in this area should be automined, before then channeling and causing collapses.

I must say, even the bugs in dwarf fortress are kind of features. Like, the dwarves just take it upon themselves to ignore my orders and do as they will, to the point of near intentional suicide.

Edit: update for those interested, the up ramp designation WAS working... until one of the little morons decided randomly to mine a section out instead of up ramp carving, and the next guy up ramp carved and dropped the ceiling directly on the other little moron, obliterating him completely.... task manager, annnnnd kill process.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2022, 01:03:13 am by Urist_McUrist »
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I am an angry person. It's true. Anti-social misanthrope with a complete lack of an ability to tolerate stupidity. So if you say something stupid to me, or try and insinuate I must just be misunderstanding or doing something wrong, I will probably yell at you. Always take me at my word when I explain something. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm simply being honest, in a world where the average intellect is potato. Unhelpful patronizing "help", deserves a snappy retort. Grow some thicker skin.

Mobbstar

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Re: Dwarves channeling, but then auto mining without designation?
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2022, 04:54:47 am »
Quote from: Salmeuk on January 02, 2022, 12:24:37 am
there could be some kind of bug related to this previous action, where the automine designation is somehow left attached to the rock invisibly.

In that case, maybe designating the whole area to be dug, then removing that designation, could reset the invisible flag.

Either way, it sounds bugtracker-worthy.
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anewaname

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Re: Dwarves channeling, but then auto mining without designation?
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2022, 05:11:46 am »
I duplicated it in vanilla and will post a bug report.

EDIT:bug report
« Last Edit: January 02, 2022, 06:30:47 am by anewaname »
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Urist_McUrist

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Re: Dwarves channeling, but then auto mining without designation?
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2022, 11:12:25 am »
Thank you for making a bug report. And i might try a couple things like designating it all to be mined and then cancelling that to see if it clears it, if i get to it today, currently partly entombed by snow and i must dig. In real life.

Edit: Good news everyone! Designating all of the layer that kept being automined againt the will of Armok, and then removing that designation, seems to have cured the issue! Now after channeling they are no longer committing suicide by collapse! Excellent! And thank you Mobbstar for that idea!
« Last Edit: January 02, 2022, 02:43:29 pm by Urist_McUrist »
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I am an angry person. It's true. Anti-social misanthrope with a complete lack of an ability to tolerate stupidity. So if you say something stupid to me, or try and insinuate I must just be misunderstanding or doing something wrong, I will probably yell at you. Always take me at my word when I explain something. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm simply being honest, in a world where the average intellect is potato. Unhelpful patronizing "help", deserves a snappy retort. Grow some thicker skin.

Salmeuk

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Re: Dwarves channeling, but then auto mining without designation?
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2022, 03:08:04 pm »
Quote
No issue in another area. So its not unplayably bugged at least. I shall try using the ramp tool and see if i can level the hilltop i suppose. If anyone reading this would like to see if they can duplicate the issue and make a bug report, that would be swell. My computer doesnt have internet, or a mouse, so me doing a proper bug report is tediousness i do not desire.

its funny to me because I've played for so long I might not notice a bug like this; I would just chalk it up to a mistake on my part. So nice work keeping your eyes open to this kind of thing lol

Quote
I must say, even the bugs in dwarf fortress are kind of features. Like, the dwarves just take it upon themselves to ignore my orders and do as they will, to the point of near intentional suicide.

the game of DF occurs between the screen and the player. bugs are just another mechanism for storytelling

thanks anewaname for the bug report!
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