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[Azerty]

Historically, some products made in some regions have enjoyed more or less deserved reputation for specific qualities. For exemple wine from Burgundy, steel from Damascus and cedarwood from Lebanon were reputed compared to the normal.

What I propose is that, in the course of history/game, some sites or groups of sites could produce a more notable version of a good. For exemple, a given town might become the homeplace for a famous lama wool cloth. Meanwhile, an elven retreat might become famous for its wood furniture while a dwarven fort might become famous for its beer.

The process it would follow would be:

• A site produces a relatively high amount of a product
• Said production is made by very skilled workers (think legendary)
• Enough time pass to establish a tradition

The eligible products might be processed goods (for exemple clothes, alcohol, jewelry or stonework) and some raw materials (fruits, meat from domestic animals).

These goods should be more searched after by consumers (for exemple wine from some places should be very popular), have higher quality (for exemple, some steels should be less weak than the normal) and consequently fech higher prices.

The tradition for producing such goods should be conserved: for exemple, soapmakers in a given site should conserve the tradition enabling them to produce higher quality soap, and this tradition should be lost if no one has kept this tradition, whether by lack of apprentices of by the death of everyone who knew how to make this soap. It might make professional training even more important.

[PlumpHelmetMan]

Tentative +1. Properly implementing a feature like this could be problematic (I could see the game being slowed down considerably by the effort of tracking the quantity of legendary workers in a particular craft over X period of time in a localized region and on top of that updating history to respond to the waxing and waning of that craftmaking tradition), but would def be cool to have if Toady can manage it and would add a substantial amount of much-needed personality to each individual civ.

[FantasticDorf]

+1.

I wouldnt have any issue if more goods were branded and were higher quality. You could steal excellent chairs from the next rival dwarf hillock over marked with a informational rumor/scouted without going through and interacting too heavily with guilds (who do most of the quality work apparently nowadays, mercs buy directly from them when upgrading their armor a level)

It could help establish the wealth of the people who 'own' the site as leaders according to how valuable the material they produce by speciality by cutting a fraction of the value into personal wealth, as well as ethics on what they are and aren't allowed to harvest (elves generate wood, and monopoly on fruit/harvests but can specialise in ethical furniture to sell to themselves). Mix it with trade companies, either spending their own money to expand industry or pushing the quality goods along and it seems like a good thing.

The one nit-pick i find though is about your suggestion is that it should be determined by how many workers there are: mainly because there is a lot of bloat-already with people teaching each other in guilds, it seems relatively unnessecary. But i do think that more workers than normal to a capacity of infrastructure (hence trade companies spend money to help more workers) should be allowed at the site.

The guilds role i feel would be to professionally train as they do already with apprenticeships, and the town's job is to supply work, since how towns work other than a huge hive of 100's (sometimes thousands of goblins) isn't very realistic, when you want to simulate people potentially suffering a national famine, because the goblins ran into town, sacked it and moved on by abducting all farm workers.

[Orange-of-Cthulhu]

+1

One note - I don't think the procedure has to be complicated or involve skills of crafters.

AFAIK the regions that produce special cheese or whatever, it isn't because they have better cheese makers than anybody else, but just that the region itself favours this special product. Bulgarian yoghurt is for instance special because it's made with a lacto bacillus what for whatever unknown reasons thrives in Bulgaria and not much in other places, because of some conditions there. Anyway that's the official story, and I think that's good enough for the game

Products like llama wool just becomes regionally different because in different regions llama eat different stuff and are exposed to different weather, so they grow different wool.

(Incidentally I also know that USA was buying titanium from USSR during the cold war (through a whole bunch of front companies) because the USSR titanium was better for some purposed than the USA titanium.)

So it would be fine, I think, if the game randomly created some varieties of products. It would just be like, "yeah goat cheese from here is especially good, we don't know why."

Like this:

A region has 1/10 of getting a special product

if it gets one it is given to the race with most sites in the region, if two races have equal number of sites it's assigned to race randomly

then there is a roll to decide if the regional product is a specific product (llama mittens, goat cheese) or a group of items (llama wool items, all kinds of cheese)

Regional products then get a 35% bonus on all the stats the product has got (except weight and size lol).

[Mobbstar]

I don't think the procedure has to be complicated

[...]

Like this:

[...]

The theory is interesting and compelling, but the proposed mechanics seem confusing to me.  I don't like the idea that a region-specific bonus be granted to only one civilisation within the region.

To make the implementation less difficult, maybe the "better grass" can be an actual plant that applies a syndrome or state flag to its grazers (possibly only of specific species).  Rarity is already possible, as demonstrated by Valley Herb and Whip Vine (though some code still glosses over that, I think, e.g. when determining which dyes a civ has access to).

A more satisfying implementation should make sure the specialisation only occurs once per world, or at least similar to civilisation placement by attempting to place one of each before repeating.  For further flavour and diagnosability, the produce should be named after (or mention in description) the region or the first historic producer.

[FantasticDorf]

I don't think the procedure has to be complicated

[...]

Like this:

[...]

The theory is interesting and compelling, but the proposed mechanics seem confusing to me.  I don't like the idea that a region-specific bonus be granted to only one civilisation within the region.

To make the implementation less difficult, maybe the "better grass" can be an actual plant that applies a syndrome or state flag to its grazers (possibly only of specific species).  Rarity is already possible, as demonstrated by Valley Herb and Whip Vine (though some code still glosses over that, I think, e.g. when determining which dyes a civ has access to).

I think you're both onto something, i viewed the OP through the eye-lens of = Geographical producers of industry doing industrial things, but when it comes to products couldnt there be specialist reactions for this kind of thing in the Raw's? Producer recognises things in their entity.txt and surroundings, then uses the trade_region file for reagent and output as a special product.

EI - A very important geographical export can be dwarven cheese from purring maggots, by having the dwarves utilize all cavern layers especially, then having webs of intrigue about human merchants doing devious bribes and exchanges to try to learn where it comes from to copy it, or "dwarven steel" that is slightly better wrought than the normal kind could be modded in by a player to give a advantage.

• How they are better than normal reactions is that they'd have the additional context of being industrial trades, where you could put in tokens like [CAN_BE_LEARNED] or [SECRETIVE_ART] where applicable

A lesson from history: The very real story of how silk came to Europe was a pair of Byzantine monks ferreting away some silkworms inside a bamboo cane when nobody was looking on their way home.

[Azerty]

Regional products then get a 35% bonus on all the stats the product has got (except weight and size lol).

I think the bonuses should be more diverse: for exemple, a place could make more solid armor while another might make sharper blades.

[Orange-of-Cthulhu]

The theory is interesting and compelling, but the proposed mechanics seem confusing to me.  I don't like the idea that a region-specific bonus be granted to only one civilisation within the region.

To make the implementation less difficult, maybe the "better grass" can be an actual plant that applies a syndrome or state flag to its grazers (possibly only of specific species).  Rarity is already possible, as demonstrated by Valley Herb and Whip Vine (though some code still glosses over that, I think, e.g. when determining which dyes a civ has access to).

A more satisfying implementation should make sure the specialisation only occurs once per world, or at least similar to civilisation placement by attempting to place one of each before repeating.  For further flavour and diagnosability, the produce should be named after (or mention in description) the region or the first historic producer.

Well it's a bit about taste.

I like it civ-specific because it would be more special to me if it was just like the Elves in a region that knew the secret of making the fabled llama mittens as opposed to everybody that live in the region.

I guess also since I'm European it makes sense to me. Like "only the French can make a true camemberts, only the Portuguese the true port wine."

Off course it's stupid - everybody can make a French camembert exactly like a French one if you follow the recipe, it's just a fiction you can like or not.

[IndigoFenix]

I think this could be done in a similar manner to artistic/music/dance styles.

A figure could generate a "style" which can be applied to certain types of items.  Once created, the style becomes something that other units can practice and learn.  As with current artistic styles, these would propagate through a civilization, but since they would mostly be used by tradesmen, they would propagate more slowly.  Actually, it would make sense that they would specifically use guilds as a means of propagation.

Styles could come in several categories.  Some could be applied to furniture/architecture in general (real world examples include the Ionic, Doric, Corinthian, Gothic, Victorian); once created these could be applied equally to any furniture, statues, or engravings.  Other styles could be associated with clothing, or even food and drink.

They would not be objectively better than any other object, but civilizations or individuals could have a preference for them, and it would be easier to find high-quality items in a particular style if you got them straight from the guild.  Once economics comes into play, their rarity/desirability in a region could impact their price.

Some styles might even be classified as "trade secrets" which would be guarded by a guild (and could be stolen).

Actual stat bonuses falls more under the category of technological trees, which are planned.

[Mobbstar]

Some styles might even be classified as "trade secrets" which would be guarded by a guild (and could be stolen).

Styles…  Secrets…  Dwarves, today we shall seize the means of weaving twisted fabric and forging double-tipped swords!  Raid the vault!  Get that slab!

[anewaname]

To develop a reputation and have an increase in price, the good would need to be desired by the upper-class/noble citizens of other sites. You know how nobles are.... until they find a way to use the imported good for their own benefit, usually for wealth or to display power, they don't want it around.

[Shdorsh]

+1 from me as well.

As to the resources vs manufacturing discussion, I think it should be both. Trying to resume the whole thing while adding some of my own (underlined), you tell me if I get that right :

First kind is resource-based: Some resources at a certain place might be better in one way or another. How this happens needs to be thought out though: just a chance roll?
Second one is crafting-based:  Someone might discover a better way to craft a certain object and teach it to their guild, needing to have apprentices uphold the tradition or write down the secrets to it. Apprentices with more need to uphold tradition and greater care for it should require less effort to become successors in the craft. When it comes to books about these craft secrets, they need to be stockpiled in their respective guilds, not a random library, making the guilds become owners of a trade secret.

Creation of a new notable product will need to have a large quantity of a high quality good, possibly by a skilled craftsdwarf. That quantity can be reduced depending on whether its creation is currently mandated by a noble, the higher their position, the lower. (Imagine that, useful nobles...)
Once the threshold exceeded, a new style is created and will have a name related to its' craftsdwarf, the settlement or its site government. Depending on the product the style came from, it can be applied onto different objects (i.e. Art Nouveau can be architecture, statues, paintings, not just one thing).
However, especially for food and intermediate goods, it can also have stricter requirements, like a special type of milk (you don't make parmesan with goat-milk), or even workshop requirements, like it must be made in a dolomite kitchen (as in, stone oven pizza, right?)

Traditions can be lost and the new notable product will be lost forever, causing a negative thought in dwarves that care about tradition and guildmembers. Also, if the recipe for a crafting-based notable product gets passed on from a site government to its civilization, the name might switch from its site government based name to a civilization one.

When it comes to the effects of a notable product, it can vary: In weapons it would select a token like damage, stick-chance, crit-chance etc. and give it a small boost.

[GumNut]

Adding to these things I could see some fairly exotic new alloys being possible to be discovered. I like the idea of these trade secrets being passed down by books. It'd be difficult to implement a tracking of what individuals know how to work the metal, but if you consider possession of the book as being able to work the metal or produce the goods it could open up some interesting possibilities.

Imagine the following scenario.

Urist McDwarfface, one of the founding dwarves of your fort, has worked hard in the smelters year in and year out becoming a Legendary Smelter. One day he is struck by a spark of fey inspiration and discovers an entirely new alloy, up until now unknown by dwarfkind, called Mithrintine. The process is so complicated, convoluted and time-consuming that he has to write down the recipe as there is no way for a dwarf to keep the entire process memorized. Luckily there's a masterwork quire that was conveniently around at the time, and the book is stored in the well secured guild hall at all times when it is not in use for production of this new Mithrintine.

"Work order cancelled" what's this? Can't smelt the Mithrintine, that can't be. No, where is the book? Did someone misplace it after use, forget to put it away during his ale break? Could it have been those pesky kobolds? Maybe it was that recent lava accident we had? Whatever happened the art of creating our new alloy is forever lost, and many years later all you have left are the statues made from the little Mithrintine you had time to produce before the accident.

But then while you inspect a trade caravan you see Mithrintine trade goods with no clue how they ended up there. It could be a result of a previous trade but you decide this needs a closer investigation. After sending out several search parties over many years you finally get word of the book that was written in your fort so many years ago and you decide to send out a raid party. They come back unsuccessful, having started a war against a civilization with access to a candy-like metal alloy that has actual weight behind it.

Having lost half your population in a grueling war, both as attackers and as defenders, you look through the results of the latest pillage mission. There it is, the book with the recipe for Mithrintine, somehow having acquired a Forgotten Beast kill along the way.

[Shdorsh]

I just saw in my fort, that some dwarves had master-apprentice relations listed when I was trying to get to know their families. I'm not a modder, but I think it would be possible to have it trace back to someone who discovered a trade secret. There is even an "old master" type relationship in case where said dwarf switched masters. One could add a new type of relationship, apprentice in training and hence check if a tradition was upheld, maybe.