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[4maskwolf]

Webadict: My take is that Tric and Euchre are Trying Too Hard (tm). YMMV on whether that’s scummy within their particular meta.

And my take is that Trying Too Hard is an allegation used by scum to lynch town.  And yes, it is in our particular meta.
FOS 4maskwolf, although it would be in my meta to vote you for this.

What’s stopping you.

[webadict]

So right now:
Web is townlocking Knightwing (and Roden I guess).
Roden is townlocking Jack.

I can believe both of these. In which case if I make the daring assumption that Web and Roden are town as well that leaves the mafia inside Tric, Vector, Max, Useless, and 4mask. I can't tell currently for Web and Roden but I think this reasoning is alright.

@Toonyman: What if the scum team IS Web/Roden?  Mafia knows who is town, unlike the rest of us.

Here's a question for you, Euchre: If I'm not scum, am I right? And if I'm scum, am I right?

If that's the case, then it doesn't really matter if I'm scum or not, does it?

What exactly does that mean? I'm not sure to what the "I am right" portion refers.  Are you pushing Roden as Town? Why?
We both agree that Knightwing is townlock.

What is your opinion on 4maskwolf?

Yes, I am right. So, unless you explicitly believe that the team is exactly Roden/me, then is Roden scum? I am pocketing Roden and Knightwing64. So, if I'm scum, is Roden scum? If I'm not scum, is Roden scum?

Your biggest weakness is that you're paranoid of every possible outcome. Not only is it fucking Day 1, but you're going to ostracize yourself and get yourself eliminated by doing that, AND you're going to have accomplished nothing.

Think about this: What is the probability that Roden and I are on a team? Is it really minuscule? Then maybe don't fret about it right now and keep it as a footnote for later. Think about individuals first and teams later. If I'm scum, then think about if Roden is scum. If Roden is scum, then think about if I'm scum. But, don't start at the end first and work your way backwards because you're going to spend all your energy on your paranoia and burn out later.

I frankly, don't really care about 4mask. He's not going to be super useful right off the back, but he'll be more useful later. For now, pretend I'm giving him a slight lean Town. He's wrong about everything, naturally, but it doesn't make him scum necessarily. In fact, if he doesn't him scum eventually, that's when you should be worrying about him.

Webadict: My take is that Tric and Euchre are Trying Too Hard (tm). YMMV on whether that’s scummy within their particular meta.

Euchre? Nah, he's probably Town. He's just paranoid of everything. His attack on me seemed pretty legit to me, although I'm disappointed that he didn't use other games before NSVM3.

I'd say if you want to go after Tric, that'd be a better avenue, but that's up to you.

[TricMagic]

If you're going to do it though, please do so before I'm asleep for day end.

[Knightwing64]

Honestly, I believe that either webadict or EuchreJack is sus. Or they could be both town and making a mountain out of a molehill.

[ToonyMan]

@Jack:

@Jack:

Upgrading UselessMcMiner to town lean.  Have my posting crown, good sir.

Why?

Two things really:
1) UselessMcMiner reminds me of my very first game as town.
2) Going off the assumption of newness, UselessMcMiner is posting too much to be mafia.  If they were mafia, they would be posting a lot in the scumchat and not here.  The rabid attacking seems like new townie.  So yeah, no voting Jack Jr, ok?

You should instead look to see who is attacking UselessMcMiner and why.

Fair enough.


@Webadict:

I can believe both of these. In which case if I make the daring assumption that Web and Roden are town as well that leaves the mafia inside Tric, Vector, Max, Useless, and 4mask. I can't tell currently for Web and Roden but I think this reasoning is alright.

I like these and can agree. Who do you think is scum in that 5?

I'm going to extend this reasoning further by removing Tric and Useless from the list. I agree with Jack that Tric and Useless feel town. I believe it's likely there's at least one scum inside Vector, Max, and 4mask. I think Max is the least suspicious out of these three from what I've read so I will say I think Vector and 4mask are scum right now, however I don't have strong reasoning for Vector as they haven't posted much.

4mask is a different story though:

1. Joke vote on Webadict - NAI

2. Joke(?) vote on Tric - NAI

3. Votes Jack for "slipping" - The phrase "I'm going to laugh my ass off" is very similar to what I said as mafia in MVM3 when Tric got the same parity results on Vector and Max. Mafia indicative. In addition I think their vote comes off as disingenuous.

4. Weird passive responses to Tric's inquiry - Could be seen as scummy, not strong

5. Vague suspicion of Jack and Tric - Doesn't take a stance on how they feel about them, but points them out regardless. Mafia indicative.

[webadict]

Honestly, I believe that either webadict or EuchreJack is sus. Or they could be both town and making a mountain out of a molehill.

Gotta give a bit more on why or people will ignore you. If people think you're Town, you have a lower burden of proof, but you also have a higher burden of responsibility. Anything that pings your radar especially?

@Webadict:

I can believe both of these. In which case if I make the daring assumption that Web and Roden are town as well that leaves the mafia inside Tric, Vector, Max, Useless, and 4mask. I can't tell currently for Web and Roden but I think this reasoning is alright.

I like these and can agree. Who do you think is scum in that 5?

I'm going to extend this reasoning further by removing Tric and Useless from the list. I agree with Jack that Tric and Useless feel town. I believe it's likely there's at least one scum inside Vector, Max, and 4mask. I think Max is the least suspicious out of these three from what I've read so I will say I think Vector and 4mask are scum right now, however I don't have strong reasoning for Vector as they haven't posted much.

4mask is a different story though:

1. Joke vote on Webadict - NAI

2. Joke(?) vote on Tric - NAI

3. Votes Jack for "slipping" - The phrase "I'm going to laugh my ass off" is very similar to what I said as mafia in MVM3 when Tric got the same parity results on Vector and Max. Mafia indicative. In addition I think their vote comes off as disingenuous.

4. Weird passive responses to Tric's inquiry - Could be seen as scummy, not strong

5. Vague suspicion of Jack and Tric - Doesn't take a stance on how they feel about them, but points them out regardless. Mafia indicative.

I see you're paying attention, and that's scary.

I'd be more willing to accept this if Vector were posting. Sadly, they're a limiting factor for me to go after 4mask.

I can agree with Useless for now, at least. That makes sense. I can also somewhat agree with Maximum Spin, but he's a bit harder to read. But, Vector not posting is hampering my deductions.

[UselessMcMiner]

@Jack:

Upgrading UselessMcMiner to town lean.  Have my posting crown, good sir.

Why?

@Useless:
Wow that's a lot of posts, but can you answer my question in my first post? You kind of answered it indirectly but I'd still like a direct response.

I agree that mech discussion could be harmful, however two players spamposting at each other can be even worse and let's scum hide in the chaos. I really don't want that to happen again either.

Overall I generally like to focus a lot on the progression of reads and the actual logical backend of reads

generally I don’t like responding to questions like these cause they’re kind of pointless lol

vote: Euchrejack

... K, you are not giving me confidence in you being town.. Pointless info, or useful info. Why is something useless to you, when it's needful to town?

firstly why would I care about your opinion on this matter

secondly I already revealed how I made reads? There’s a logical gap here where you’re implying that I’m somehow being cagey when I’m not.

What was the purpose of this post exactly?

[UselessMcMiner]

4mask, can I ask why no push against me?

why do you care

And then ask me why I care someone who suspected me never put forth a case against me. UselessMcMiner, what is your goal for Day 1?

again there’s another logical gap here, I already described how I made my reads and my goals for this day so what’s the purpose of this question exactly

[UselessMcMiner]

Overall I generally like to focus a lot on the progression of reads and the actual logical backend of reads

generally I don’t like responding to questions like these cause they’re kind of pointless lol

vote: Euchrejack

That's an odd statement given that Euchre's attack on me was very logical and generally feels like active progression. I don't see voting him as a logical conclusion of that. Your defense of your vote doesn't support it. I'm gonna stick with Roden on this one and say we keep EJ for now..

I'm also gonna throw in a bit of a crazy spin and say that it's proooobably not Useless either. Wrong conclusion and everything, some of the evidence feels genuine, so I'm gonna say no to that elim either. At least, not for now.

I mean to me at least it felt more like Euchre was trying to justify his push while he was doing it, or when that failed try to dig himself out of the hole he dug

although I think that in a forum like this I suspect most of the wolves are probably not going to be extremely aggressive

/vote TricMagic

I think the push on me is just bad, it doesn’t even really feel like they’re trying to say that I’ve done anything wolfy. They’ve just taken random posts of mine, ignored the surrounding posts. And then going “wow aren’t these posts strange? Quite weird amirite?” And then voting me for no reason

again getting hung up on details but they said “convince me youre town” but they never even implied that they had a read on me before that post

it just came out of thin air

[Knightwing64]

Honestly, I believe that either webadict or EuchreJack is sus. Or they could be both town and making a mountain out of a molehill.

Gotta give a bit more on why or people will ignore you. If people think you're Town, you have a lower burden of proof, but you also have a higher burden of responsibility. Anything that pings your radar especially?

@Webadict:

I can believe both of these. In which case if I make the daring assumption that Web and Roden are town as well that leaves the mafia inside Tric, Vector, Max, Useless, and 4mask. I can't tell currently for Web and Roden but I think this reasoning is alright.

I like these and can agree. Who do you think is scum in that 5?

I'm going to extend this reasoning further by removing Tric and Useless from the list. I agree with Jack that Tric and Useless feel town. I believe it's likely there's at least one scum inside Vector, Max, and 4mask. I think Max is the least suspicious out of these three from what I've read so I will say I think Vector and 4mask are scum right now, however I don't have strong reasoning for Vector as they haven't posted much.

4mask is a different story though:

1. Joke vote on Webadict - NAI

2. Joke(?) vote on Tric - NAI

3. Votes Jack for "slipping" - The phrase "I'm going to laugh my ass off" is very similar to what I said as mafia in MVM3 when Tric got the same parity results on Vector and Max. Mafia indicative. In addition I think their vote comes off as disingenuous.

4. Weird passive responses to Tric's inquiry - Could be seen as scummy, not strong

5. Vague suspicion of Jack and Tric - Doesn't take a stance on how they feel about them, but points them out regardless. Mafia indicative.

I see you're paying attention, and that's scary.

I'd be more willing to accept this if Vector were posting. Sadly, they're a limiting factor for me to go after 4mask.

I can agree with Useless for now, at least. That makes sense. I can also somewhat agree with Maximum Spin, but he's a bit harder to read. But, Vector not posting is hampering my deductions.

Both of you just seem at eachothers throat for no reason, you take everything each other says in the worst possible way. It just seems kinda weird especially when there is no evidence of any wrongdoing yet.

[EuchreJack]

Both of you just seem at eachothers throat for no reason, you take everything each other says in the worst possible way. It just seems kinda weird especially when there is no evidence of any wrongdoing yet.

Alright, I have a solution!

@Webadict: For now, lets both just assume the other is town.  I think you might be mafia, but you think I'm town, so at least its half right.
Whom do you think is mafia? I'll jump on them too.  Team Please Don't Make Me Vote Today is a GO!

[Maximum Spin]

Anyone want to vote to shorten?

[webadict]

Both of you just seem at eachothers throat for no reason, you take everything each other says in the worst possible way. It just seems kinda weird especially when there is no evidence of any wrongdoing yet.

Alright, I have a solution!

@Webadict: For now, lets both just assume the other is town.  I think you might be mafia, but you think I'm town, so at least its half right.
Whom do you think is mafia? I'll jump on them too.  Team Please Don't Make Me Vote Today is a GO!

I mean, that involves me changing nothing, so that's fine with me, and it'd make you right, so it's literally a win-win.

If you want honesty, based entirely on no one pinging me as especially suspicious just yet other than maybe one of 4mask or TricMagic (very slightly, honestly), I'm under the impression that Vector is probably scum. It's a bit of a cop out, though, because it's basically me using PoE to say it's Vector, which is a bad answer because there's at least two scum. So, me ranking them involves the following:

Knightwing64 -> Locktown
Roden -> Nearlocktown
EuchreJack -> Town
UselessMcMiner -> Town
Maximum Spin -> Null
ToonyMan -> Null
TricMagic -> Cannot decipher
4maskwolf -> Weird
Vector -> Unknown

If I accept that you believe TricMagic is Town, and I mean, you have to be pretty set on that, then I can move TricMagic higher. I wouldn't want to go after them just yet anyway, so I still wouldn't want them eliminated just yet.

Now, that does leave 4mask, right? But, this is all within 4mask's meta as Town. I actually assume he's holding back a bit, though, and that's why I feel weird about him for now. It's just intuition, but my intuition is saying that he's not a threat, but my brain is telling me that he should be more talkative. Is he afraid of something? Perhaps he has a strong role, and he doesn't want people to know? 4mask tends to play towards the things he needs, and the thing he seems to need right now is... to be in the background. If I had to guess, 4maskwolf is a Cop. However, I'm also saying this so that he's a target of the Mafia, but I do believe that.

ToonyMan is certainly a choice, but I am subconsciously holding back against him for now, and I can't be trusted to go after him. He did, after all, fall into the Knightwing trap.

Maximum Spin is a choice, but... he's also kinda Townie sounding, too.

Thus, if a gun were in my hands, I'd be threatening Vector and ToonyMan to point out scum with it.

[EuchreJack]

Anyone want to vote to shorten?

For me, I need Vector to post before I'd consider shortening.  I also got really burned one time on a shortening vote, so I'm loathe to shorten in general.

Thus, if a gun were in my hands, I'd be threatening Vector and ToonyMan to point out scum with it.

Sure, let's do that.  Since Toonyman is already hunting 4maskwolf and Vector, that leaves threatening Vector.

@Vector: Is Toonyman scum? If not, who is?

[4maskwolf]

Something something webadict shilling my late game wolf hunting means he's actually a wolf setting me up for being killed by the town later.

Also I'll let you in on a little secret: Trying Too Hard (tm) isn't a scumread. Or even suspicion. It's a frank analysis of the way they are playing early D1, taking posts a little too seriously and building mountains out of molehills.