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Author Topic: Oh jeez, Quicktopic is shutting down  (Read 63077 times)

TolyK

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Re: Oh jeez, Quicktopic is shutting down
« Reply #135 on: December 12, 2021, 10:11:45 am »

You can download every post in the Mafia subforum within about an hour or two, with reasonable self rate limiting. It's only about 200 megabytes of JSON, IIRC...

One way to do it would be to find all posts with QT links, look for the proper archive.org link (and verify it works), then prepare the edits to make, then run the changes with manual approval on each one (I estimate around a thousand links, or 800 unique ones, which would take maybe a hour to do manually, so... doable, I guess  :p)
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Mephansteras

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Re: Oh jeez, Quicktopic is shutting down
« Reply #136 on: December 12, 2021, 10:39:39 am »

I think I'd prefer a post at the end of any topic that has quicktopic links with the updated links. This is less load on the server (fewer actual updates since it is limited to 1 per thread) and has much lower risks since we wouldn't be actually editing anything and just adding a single post. The bay12 forums are not the most robust of production environments.

We can also put an announcement in the top of the Notable Games archive about it.
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heydude6

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Re: Oh jeez, Quicktopic is shutting down
« Reply #137 on: December 12, 2021, 11:13:50 am »

The problem with that is mass necro.
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TolyK

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Re: Oh jeez, Quicktopic is shutting down
« Reply #138 on: December 12, 2021, 11:44:19 am »

Perhaps instead we insert a "mod note" at the beginning of the 1st post of each thread, that way there won't be a necro.
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Maximum Spin

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Re: Oh jeez, Quicktopic is shutting down
« Reply #139 on: December 12, 2021, 12:05:37 pm »

I put mine in my own thread, at least.
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heydude6

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Re: Oh jeez, Quicktopic is shutting down
« Reply #140 on: December 13, 2021, 08:46:37 pm »

As the person who did the vast majority of the archival work (23 pages to be specific), I feel like I have to make a statement of some sort.

When I set out to do this, my goal was to preserve the bay12 mafia subforum in a way as to leave it as untouched by the quicktopic shutdown as possible. I wanted future forumites to have the same browsing experience as I did, rather than have their hearts broken by a bunch of 404 links. Such things create an atmosphere of decay, like a condemned building with broken windows. It doesn't matter if there are people still living in it, to the outside world it will appear to be dead which can only push it further into decline.

That's why I did my best to archive everything. I've had some friends ask me why I didn't just archive the "good" games, and I know many of you who wanted to prioritize the Notable Games Archive, but my goal had always been to preserve a community, rather than create a museum. A community isn't just a best-hits album. It's a mix of both the good and the bad, the classy and the cringe. A community is raw and lived-in, while a museum is sterile.

Having a stamp with all the updated links in the Opening or Final post may be useful, but it's a partial admission of defeat. It makes me think of the plaque on a statue, commemorating a former greatness that is nevertheless with us no longer. It's a statement that things have irrevokably changed as a result of the quicktopic shutdown, even though I believe this is far from the case.

Though we're all burnt out right now, it's important to remember that this was a triumph! The quicktopic shutdown threatened to gut our forum's history, but in response, we now have more quicktopic links available for viewing than we did before! Long-forgotten mysteries such as what the mafia were up to in BYOR: Choices have finally been resolved (spoilers: it was Webadict!), and we discovered hidden depths in games we thought we had all figured out. How many of you knew there was a private web chat in KILL WEBADICT NOW: WEBADICT EDITION ?
(you'll have to wait for Tolyk to post his links before you can read the QTs though)

I want this to be a story about resiliency, rather than loss. I want this to be the story about how the subforum barely noticed when quicktopic shut down. I want this to be a story that we can one day forget.



I don't know what will ultimately happen to the links we saved, but I believe that if we are going to go through the effort of making a bot, then I believe it's worth going the extra mile to allow it to do seamless edits. To help this, I'd be willing to go through the effort of gathering quote URLs (ie. quoting the post that needs to be edited, and then saving that link). I believe we'll have an easier time achieving ideal results if the bot already knows which post it needs to edit, rather than spend time programming a sub-routine that has to search for it.

Whatever we do will likely take a while though. I think in the meantime it's important for us to post our quicktopic links somewhere where they are at least accessible, even if it's a bit rough.

I am a little burnt out though. I'll probably start this sometime after I finish my final exam on Saturday. I think a new topic just for the archive is a wise idea.
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Lets use the ancient naval art of training war parrots. No one will realize they have been boarded by space war parrots until it is to late!
You can fake being able to run on water. You can't fake looking cool when you break your foot on a door and hit your head on the floor.

webadict

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Re: Oh jeez, Quicktopic is shutting down
« Reply #141 on: December 13, 2021, 10:00:31 pm »

Thanks for the work you did.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Oh jeez, Quicktopic is shutting down
« Reply #142 on: December 15, 2021, 10:37:15 am »

I checked in with Toady and he's fine with us running an update script.

He does think it'll be best if it is throttled to avoid overloading the server by updating a ton of stuff at once, but that's easy to build in. Just make it sleep a few seconds in-between each update and it shouldn't cause any issues.
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Vector

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Re: Oh jeez, Quicktopic is shutting down
« Reply #143 on: December 15, 2021, 06:31:35 pm »

How many of you knew there was a private web chat in KILL WEBADICT NOW: WEBADICT EDITION

I did ;D


I agree, it would be nice to have a seamless updater. Meph, thank you for checking in about that with Toady.
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TolyK

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Re: Oh jeez, Quicktopic is shutting down
« Reply #144 on: December 17, 2021, 04:47:02 pm »

Sent some messages to get things rolling. Also shared the things I scraped just in case I disappear again.
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TolyK

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Re: Oh jeez, Quicktopic is shutting down
« Reply #145 on: December 23, 2021, 12:20:48 pm »

It seems we weren't the only ones to do a big thing for this:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88317

It's possible we could adapt their app to our own QTs, however just updating the links may be preferable.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2021, 12:22:33 pm by TolyK »
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just do whatevery tolyK and blame it as a bastard mod
Shakerag: Who are you personally suspicious of?
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heydude6

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Re: Oh jeez, Quicktopic is shutting down
« Reply #146 on: December 23, 2021, 01:08:17 pm »

I remember seeing that archival effort. I remember feeling envious that they managed to finish their task in a single day using scripts, but I think we got a better result in the end. Replacing the links isn’t an option for them.

I’ve been spending this week celebrating with my friends, but I think I’ve held things up long enough, so I’m going to give myself a deadline. By the end of this Saturday, I will have my archive posted somewhere. Most likely in a new thread.

Once that’s done, we’ll be able to start making progress on replacing links.
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Lets use the ancient naval art of training war parrots. No one will realize they have been boarded by space war parrots until it is to late!
You can fake being able to run on water. You can't fake looking cool when you break your foot on a door and hit your head on the floor.

TolyK

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Re: Oh jeez, Quicktopic is shutting down
« Reply #147 on: December 23, 2021, 07:16:18 pm »

I'm still surprised there isn't some specialized service for forum mafia games that's been adopted, it's always basically working around the limitations of forums...
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just do whatevery tolyK and blame it as a bastard mod
Shakerag: Who are you personally suspicious of?
At this point?  TolyK.

heydude6

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Re: Oh jeez, Quicktopic is shutting down
« Reply #148 on: December 23, 2021, 07:35:23 pm »

I thought MafiaScum counted as that? The forum architecture was at one point rewritten so it could have its own native private topics without relying on a third-party website that might one day shut down. I wish bay12 had something like that, but there isn't a wide enough market for it.

What other features would you want though?

EDIT:

So its been two days since my Saturday deadline has come and passed. A younger version of myself would have slithered away in shame, but I know I cannot shy away from my failures. The reason why I'm editing a post rather than making a new one is because I don't want a notification giving people the false hope that I have finished. Ideally, the only people who will see this are potential bumpers who would have otherwise posted to ask what's taking so long.

As for what's taking so long, it's a few things. Firstly, the original deadline of Saturday, better known as Christmas day, was hopelessly unrealistic. Though I had a sad and lonely Christmas Day that year, I had a proper Christmas Eve party and was still pretty tired out from that. If I thought about it for a little, I would have forseen this and scheduled something better

More generally speaking though, my mood and sleep schedule are quite a mess at the moment. I wake up in the afternoon, and find myself lacking the energy or will to do anything in these last couple of days. I guess that's what you get from a week of partying.

Ultimately, I don't know when I'll get this done, but I want to at least have this posted before my winter break ends. Hopefully I'll get this done sooner than that.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2021, 10:15:29 pm by heydude6 »
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Lets use the ancient naval art of training war parrots. No one will realize they have been boarded by space war parrots until it is to late!
You can fake being able to run on water. You can't fake looking cool when you break your foot on a door and hit your head on the floor.

TolyK

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Re: Oh jeez, Quicktopic is shutting down
« Reply #149 on: December 23, 2021, 08:25:27 pm »

I think more direct metadata would be nice. As in, improved searchability because you can look at all games with the "Super Saint" role (or equivalent). Automod as something built in. Vote counts being visible at any part of the game (if you have automod). Being able to see the public chat and mafia/mason/dead/etc. chats in a single history (for context). The ability to link to particular posts in the meta chat (which is already doable) and having it show the link with an arrow afterwards. Getting explicit support for spoilspec. After the game (or during, for the mod/spoilspec), being able to see someone's role inline with their forum posts... This is from just a bit of brainstorming, though I assume a bit has been in my unconscious thought for a while now.  :P
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My Mafia Stats
just do whatevery tolyK and blame it as a bastard mod
Shakerag: Who are you personally suspicious of?
At this point?  TolyK.
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