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[Immortal-D]

Edit: Modding has become somewhat of a focal point of the discussion, so I want to clarify.  I'd love to use a few, but I understand that too much complexity in the crafting is a turn-off.  Right now, the most complicated crafting additions being considered are the full versions of Sver's Combat Reworked and Splint's Vanilla Expanded.  The primary goal here remains a simple Cavern-only challenge.  The modding additions ran away from that.

Of late I have enjoyed reading about specialty Forts, like the violently absurd Smallhands, or revisiting old favorites like Constructivory & Breadbowl.  Several times in the past few months, I've seen players here and on Reddit asking for similar ideas to add a little spice.  So, I'm wondering if anyone would be interested in a succession game of my personal favorite challenge; the Cavern Fortress.  Rules are simple; you can only build within the Cavern zeds, and drawbridges should be left open whenever possible.  Mining tunnels are fine, but everything else must be in the Cavern.  I'm also a fan of the Dark Ages IV mod because it adds new invaders, gear, and workshops, but without feeling overwhelming.  That might be a tough sell though, so for now we'll go on the premise of vanilla cavern challenge.  Any takers?

[delphonso]

I'd be open to the idea, though I could only participate in a 2x2 size map or less - which might be pretty deadly in the caverns (less time to react to foes). I'm also not good at DF, so would certainly kill off most of the population.

As for recommendations and ideas - straight to the caverns (or embark IN the caverns) is a great idea. I've done one such fort like this myself and it was a lot of fun and also !fun!. Embarking underground in a heavy aquifer would also more or less enforce the challenge - that is assuming migrants can arrive underground...which may not be the case.

I'd suggest Splint's Vanilla Expanded - which is what it says on the tin - might add enough spice to the caverns without adding game-ending beasties. It's also less of a leap from Vanilla than Dark Ages - but I think modding is the right choice. Most veteran players know everything about the usual cavern critters, so adding in some unexpected creatures should increase the challenge.

[Unraveller]

I've done a number of cavern-forts over the years and find it quite a bit enjoyable. I tend to gravitate towards using the caverns pretty much whenever I can. As for modding, I really do feel like it'd be a nice change to see more mod sucession games. It'd liven things up for me as I've not explored much beyond vanilla.

[Maximum Spin]

I'm interested, but I don't really like mods.

[Mobbstar]

PTW and also I second the notion to consider SVE. It has little things like more cavern fish, which don't change the game flow while still adding variety. With caverns all being the same, some new stuff for tales would be great.

How would migrants, merchants, visitors, and invaders be handled?

[Immortal-D]

I have tried the 'start in caverns' mod, and even when it works, I found it boring.  It's practically no different than bricking-shut your entrance on the surface.  As for the embark, world size is a very understated part of FPS.  Using a Small or Pocket world <500 years, 3x3 & 4x4 is still quite manageable.  Doubly so if you perform basic maintenance every few years like 'clean all' and atom smashing old clothing.

I'm interested, but I don't really like mods.

That's fair.  Many mods are geared towards a specific audience or are otherwise extreme overhauls of some sort.  I would like to have the kind of mods I use in my solo games; adding variety to core elements without changing any of the game's systems.

I've done a number of cavern-forts over the years and find it quite a bit enjoyable. I tend to gravitate towards using the caverns pretty much whenever I can. As for modding, I really do feel like it'd be a nice change to see more mod sucession games. It'd liven things up for me as I've not explored much beyond vanilla.

DF modding is a vertiable rabbit hole, you can go as soft or crazy as you want.  Case in point

I'd suggest Splint's Vanilla Expanded - which is what it says on the tin - might add enough spice to the caverns without adding game-ending beasties. It's also less of a leap from Vanilla than Dark Ages - but I think modding is the right choice. Most veteran players know everything about the usual cavern critters, so adding in some unexpected creatures should increase the challenge.

PTW and also I second the notion to consider SVE. It has little things like more cavern fish, which don't change the game flow while still adding variety. With caverns all being the same, some new stuff for tales would be great.

How would migrants, merchants, visitors, and invaders be handled?

I looked at Vanilla Expanded; I like the extra gear (could stand a few more pieces), and I love the expanded creatures list.  That said, it's missing a couple things I would prefer;

1. More civs!  Reading Legends is far more entertaining when you have hostile Succubus, Orcs, and Dark Elves alongside friendly Paladins & Druids.  Siege & trading goes from predictable to hilarious as well.
2. Gem crafting.  This one is really personal, I just love love being able to make statues and furniture using gemstones.  Artifacts get 10x cooler as well (artifact diamond door).
2a. I would prefer seeing a more robust equipment list a la Dark Ages, but the additions in VE would suffice.

Again, I feel all of the aforementioned fits reasonably well; adding traditional high-fantasy elements, but without changing the core gameplay we all know and love (i.e. no complex crafting overhauls with a dozen new workshops).

[TheImmortalRyukan]

This seems interesting, I have no preference for mods either way, so there's that. A fort entirely in the caverns sounds pretty !!FUN!! neat too

[recon1o6]

Of late I have enjoyed reading about specialty Forts, like the violently absurd Smallhands,

That right there is one of the best descriptors of a fortress I have ever seen.

In terms of interest, I've never actually done much with the caverns so that could be interesting? it depends on the mods honestly. I've only really played with my personal new races and an exploding booze mod (its still a work in progress)

The more lethal the embark though the better. For some reason I seem to do better in environments where everything is bleeding, dying, exploding, suffocating or simply caving in. Makes my habit of megaprojects/megaexperiments a lot more satisfying

[delphonso]

I have tried the 'start in caverns' mod, and even when it works, I found it boring.

Very fair point. This made me think of games with "medieval" mods as a new level of challenge, but it actually ends up just being tedium, rather than challenge (cough cough rimworld). Similarly embarking with nothing in DF is basically just waiting around for 3 seasons until you can get an axe and pick from a caravan - not particularly difficult.

I looked at Vanilla Expanded; I like the extra gear (could stand a few more pieces), and I love the expanded creatures list.  That said, it's missing a couple things I would prefer

Have you considered mod packing? Although balance goes out the window, you can take unique elements (even just a single creature) from different mods to tailor a challenge to you and the other players. (cough cough spookyfort)


Anyway, whatever you settle on, you'll have an ardent reader in me (and potentially a player).

[Immortal-D]

Yeah, I'm looking into cherry-picking select features.  That would also make sure the game is not locked into a single tileset for a given mod.  With 3 'maybes' plus myself, that is bare minimum to give it a go.  I'll assemble a pack this weekend, see if anyone else throws their proverbial hat in the ring until then.

[Splint]

I'd suggest Splint's Vanilla Expanded - which is what it says on the tin - might add enough spice to the caverns without adding game-ending beasties. It's also less of a leap from Vanilla than Dark Ages - but I think modding is the right choice. Most veteran players know everything about the usual cavern critters, so adding in some unexpected creatures should increase the challenge.

PTW and also I second the notion to consider SVE. It has little things like more cavern fish, which don't change the game flow while still adding variety. With caverns all being the same, some new stuff for tales would be great.

How would migrants, merchants, visitors, and invaders be handled?

I looked at Vanilla Expanded; I like the extra gear (could stand a few more pieces), and I love the expanded creatures list.  That said, it's missing a couple things I would prefer;

1. More civs!  Reading Legends is far more entertaining when you have hostile Succubus, Orcs, and Dark Elves alongside friendly Paladins & Druids.  Siege & trading goes from predictable to hilarious as well.
2. Gem crafting.  This one is really personal, I just love love being able to make statues and furniture using gemstones.  Artifacts get 10x cooler as well (artifact diamond door).
2a. I would prefer seeing a more robust equipment list a la Dark Ages, but the additions in VE would suffice.

Again, I feel all of the aforementioned fits reasonably well; adding traditional high-fantasy elements, but without changing the core gameplay we all know and love (i.e. no complex crafting overhauls with a dozen new workshops).

As my mod's been mentioned, I'm certainly open to ideas to help make it more appealing, or even just little additions and whatnot in general that wouldn't feel out of place in a vanilla game.

About the only things I can say I've stuck with are keeping to the 1400 tech cut-off (with the exception of cheese graters,) having metal men and colossi be implied remains of an ancient civilization and giving the caverns a slight fire theme with stuff like magma vines and ember moss.

EDIT: There's also stuff from my older Utility Mod that may be of interest, especially if you want to personalize the equipment of your soldiers, make stuff out of bone, or have your own homemade flux for steel production in flux-poor but iron-rich locales.

[Immortal-D]

As my mod's been mentioned, I'm certainly open to ideas to help make it more appealing, or even just little additions and whatnot in general that wouldn't feel out of place in a vanilla game.

About the only things I can say I've stuck with are keeping to the 1400 tech cut-off (with the exception of cheese graters,) having metal men and colossi be implied remains of an ancient civilization and giving the caverns a slight fire theme with stuff like magma vines and ember moss.

EDIT: There's also stuff from my older Utility Mod that may be of interest, especially if you want to personalize the equipment of your soldiers, make stuff out of bone, or have your own homemade flux for steel production in flux-poor but iron-rich locales.

Not going to mess with tech levels here.  There are only two things I was planning to incorporate with your mod; 1. More civs/invaders.  Anyone remember the old Fortress Defense mod?  Just a bunch of traditional high-fantasy races, both friendly and hostile.  Some with themed gear or a special ability, but mostly just more fodder for me to test my defenses and add variation to the Seasons.  Dark Ages and High Fantasy Pack does a good job of this, though the former is too magic-heavy for a common interest succession game.
2. Gem crafting.  Fairly simple addition you can find in both Dark Ages & Meph pack.  Adding either a workshop or forge that lets you create furniture & statues using gemstones (skill is Gem Cutting, mood prefers crafting over a perfect gem).
2a. Since I'm thinking about it now, I still have a copy of The Terrible Weapon Pack because I find it hilarious.  Might be worth looking at another staple of my single player Forts; Sver Combat Reworked

For anyone who was considering signing up and is now terrified (lulz), I promise this is not turning into Modded Hell

[Unraveller]

I can't imagine why mods seem so scary, haha. I'd love to play in a succession game that was full of new content for me to explore, magic or otherwise. I've played so much vanilla Dwarf Fort over the years. A new experience would be lovely, crazy magic or otherwise. But eh, I'll be along for the ride whatever we end up going with.

[Splint]

As my mod's been mentioned, I'm certainly open to ideas to help make it more appealing, or even just little additions and whatnot in general that wouldn't feel out of place in a vanilla game.

About the only things I can say I've stuck with are keeping to the 1400 tech cut-off (with the exception of cheese graters,) having metal men and colossi be implied remains of an ancient civilization and giving the caverns a slight fire theme with stuff like magma vines and ember moss.

EDIT: There's also stuff from my older Utility Mod that may be of interest, especially if you want to personalize the equipment of your soldiers, make stuff out of bone, or have your own homemade flux for steel production in flux-poor but iron-rich locales.

Not going to mess with tech levels here.  There are only two things I was planning to incorporate with your mod; 1. More civs/invaders.  Anyone remember the old Fortress Defense mod?  Just a bunch of traditional high-fantasy races, both friendly and hostile.  Some with themed gear or a special ability, but mostly just more fodder for me to test my defenses and add variation to the Seasons.  Dark Ages and High Fantasy Pack does a good job of this, though the former is too magic-heavy for a common interest succession game.
2. Gem crafting.  Fairly simple addition you can find in both Dark Ages & Meph pack.  Adding either a workshop or forge that lets you create furniture & statues using gemstones (skill is Gem Cutting, mood prefers crafting over a perfect gem).
2a. Since I'm thinking about it now, I still have a copy of The Terrible Weapon Pack because I find it hilarious.  Might be worth looking at another staple of my single player Forts; Sver Combat Reworked

For anyone who was considering signing up and is now terrified (lulz), I promise this is not turning into Modded Hell

I'm honestly inclined to agree in regards to High Fantasy. Looks like a bit too much for my tastes personally though it definitely looks well made and well executed overall.

The tissue revisions from sver's is actually included in the edited vanilla files, and I also considered terrible weapons. Ended up deciding against it, though this past update to SVE has added some similar stuff that people will wield in adventure mode.

And fortress defense was great back when sieges were more frequent and consistent. I miss those days of constant bloodshed. Does give me an idea to try and figure out some way of doing some additional "stock" fantasy races as an option entity pack like the animal men I did.

The Utility mod does have some limited gem crafting to it, namely bedroom sets. Cloth and a bunch of gems in, and you get furniture out of the corresponding types. For example, if you put in a red pyrope, emerald, and purple spinel, you'd get a red pyrope bed (decorated with cloth,) emerald chest, and purple spinel cabinet.

I could probably hammer some shit out though as like, a generic crafting pack though. I already have bone, glass and ceramic covered and it wouldn't be that much of an issue to do gems. Would need a bit to do it though.

[Maloy]

If people really want vanilla

Maybe a reanimator biome with zombifying dust?
Make it in a desert or tundra or somewhere suitably miserable and require the dwarves to build on a natural layer; as in surface or cavern

Break through cavern layers immediately to open up forgotten beasts
custom generate the world so monsters don't need a high population to start harassing us
Year 10 we have to bust open HFS no matter where we are and year 11 picks up immediately after we did it


I love mods btw and am interested in this, but just throwing an idea out if people don't wanna do that

Since I've only played the long night and masterwork I don't know these other mods, but that means I'm equally excited to try any of them!