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Author Topic: cRPG corner: Pathfinders Kingmaker and WoTR, Pillars of Eternity, etc.  (Read 5398 times)

chaoticag

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Re: cRPG corner: Pathfinders Kingmaker and WoTR, Pillars of Eternity, etc.
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2021, 07:38:46 am »

From a party building perspective I am having a hard time making Woljif fit in really. I am not sure that eldritch scoundrel offers anything particularly good? 2/3rds caster versus fullcaster-1 Rogue 1/Caster 9/Arcane Trickster 10, worse defenses compared to a magus, bard or vivisectionist. The icing on top is Cameilla fills in trap and door duty better. Get the feeling I will end up retraining him later to "fix" him.
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Cthulhu

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Re: cRPG corner: Pathfinders Kingmaker and WoTR, Pillars of Eternity, etc.
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2021, 08:06:43 am »

Yeah, I don't like woljif either.  He's spread too thin, Camellia can already do trickery and also gets other stuff besides, and Wenduag covers the stealth and sneak attack stuff.  Really sneak attack is too widely available I think, even my barbarian has sneak attack.  Rogue's always been awkward and while I don't agree with a lot of complaints about rogues, Woljif himself just doesn't bring anything discriminating.
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chaoticag

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Re: cRPG corner: Pathfinders Kingmaker and WoTR, Pillars of Eternity, etc.
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2021, 09:28:20 am »

Eldritch scoundrel really gives up too much between armor, sneak attack progression and uncanny dodge. I think you even get less rogue talents. It makes sense you wanna give up a decent amount of stuff for spell access on a rogue, but you can compare it to the primalist bloodrager who basically ends up as a better barbarian with less hit points.

And well, adding sneak attack damage ends up being taking one level of vivisectionist to get it and an alchemy bonus to one attribute you want and a smattering of useful spells. I don't think sneak attack damage is as useful as doubled strength bonus damage though. With the right build anyway.

Anyway, weekend is in let me see if I can get farther in than all the beta versions I had to stop playing due to a game breaking bug somewhere there.
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JimboM12

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Re: cRPG corner: Pathfinders Kingmaker and WoTR, Pillars of Eternity, etc.
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2021, 10:07:26 am »

I try to change up my party by min-maxing each of the companions but some do just stand tall above the others:

Seelah will basically always be in your party as she has solid all around stats and being a paladin in this particular campaign is super handy. She's a brawling buffer, with tankier feats, the best armor aside from my mc and her spell lists are full of bless or holy weapon buffs.

Ive come to like woljif after i guided his feats towards maximum sneak attacks as the gang up mechanic is built into the game so his ranged touch attack spells count and so i can change his sneak attacks to range on the fly when i need to keep my damagers back because of space concerns or something. He may not be as good as wenduag but i agree some future retraining after he has the levels will fill him out better.

Like i said earlier, I consider ember an mvp for the sheer utility of her hex buffs and healing spell lists. And yeah putting bosses to sleep occasionally is super baller

Regill is just a brawler to me but his feats and racial bonuses let him zip across the battlefield in full plate at max speed and hes got 2hand feats so i load him up with leftover artifact weapons and let him shine. I also let him keep his default +2 adamantine full plate that's leagues above seelahs or even my mc's. Storywise id like to consider him my 3rd in command, hes strict, disciplined, well-learned, and is the kind of guy i want directing my common soldiers.

Im trying to find a use for daeran but it may be because i dont have a good handle on the oracle class. Maybe some sort of spell nuker? Or some kind of necromancer, i dont know.
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Pemmican is pretty incredibly durable. Corn and rice also lust forever without refrigeration.
Ah yes, the insatiable lust of corn and rice, clearly two of the most erotic foods.

chaoticag

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Re: cRPG corner: Pathfinders Kingmaker and WoTR, Pillars of Eternity, etc.
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2021, 10:29:18 am »

Well, if it helps any, you can get sense vitals on Woljif as it turns out. I haven't gotten a chance to try this but mixing in some arcane trickster as is may be a valid choice to get him up to buckets of dice of sneak attack damage in a bursty way with a sneak attack controlled fireball powered by sense vitals later on.

« Last Edit: September 09, 2021, 11:49:05 am by chaoticag »
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Cthulhu

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Re: cRPG corner: Pathfinders Kingmaker and WoTR, Pillars of Eternity, etc.
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2021, 11:33:59 pm »

I'm on one of the post-drezen quests

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It fucking sucks.  I guess the idea is you have to identify a foe's weakness and exploit that, except the enemy's don't have weaknesses?  Like the classic is the insane AC but low touch attack, except all the enemies like that also have gigantic spell resistance so what are you gonna touch attack it with?  I don't know.  Everything's stats are just so insanely high, and most of the non-SR magic is just no brainer stuff, it doesn't really feel tactical to me.  It's just the enemy has insanely high stats so spend a couple minutes buffing your own stats also insanely high and ram shit together until one side breaks. 

I dunno.  I'm slowly losing the will to push through this.  I generally like it, but it's just such a slog.  It starts to feel more like work than a game.  I also don't like the crusade mechanic.  It's just heroes of might and magic grafted onto the regular gameplay, and it also kind of sucks.  All the travel and side-mechanics in the pathfinder games just take up time that could be spent on the fun parts, which in this case aren't all that fun.

I miss the simplicity of temple of elemental evil.  I've been playing Solasta on the side and it's slowly taking over the time I've been spending on Pathfinder.  It's a 5e-based game, and cleaves tight to the rules in the same way TOEE and the pathfinder games do, except 5e's rules are simpler of course.  Only four characters, which kind of sucks, but you customize all of them and it has a fun alignment system.  Story is almost shockingly quaint, it feels like if somebody made a 50s B movie today with modern technology, that kind of quaint.  The party starts in a tavern, everyone has british accents, there's a council and it's all extremely cliche but in a comfy, charming way. 

The big innovator with Solasta is verticality.  Maps have Z-levels that are very significant, flight is actual flight, stuff like spider climb is powerful.  Lighting is also important, you actually get the normal penalties for not using light, and monsters weak to light are properly weak to it.  Stealth also a thing, maps are very terrain-heavy with grid-based movement so if you get out of view you can stealth in mid-fight.  It's very tactical in a way that most games like this are not. 

It's the eternal struggle.  I enjoy the pathfinder story but I oscillate between grudging enjoyment and "i hate this shit" on the gameplay, vs solasta which has a terrible story but really good gameplay.

Once again I wish for a simple lofi hexcrawl CRPG using an old-school ruleset.  B/X, swords and wizardry, ACKS would also be interesting, not as good for a hexcrawl but a 4e game would be fun.  Just please, anything but the bloated nightmares that 3.5 and pathfinder are.
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JimboM12

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Re: cRPG corner: Pathfinders Kingmaker and WoTR, Pillars of Eternity, etc.
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2021, 12:58:18 pm »

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1184370/view/2984186817505058694

new patch for wotr, i only just saw this on steam when i got home from work, im linking here for you guys to read cuz im actually about to head out with friends.

some stuff i noticed:

they fixed the auto-cast issue so now i dont have to keep refreshing my MC's cleave every map or save reload which is cool

performance gains which i enjoy; i had weird lag on the lost chapel which made me cringe considering my pc is strong enough to play most games on ultra

some animal companion's attacks were missing; i hope this included my horses, as they should have bite and 2 hoove/kick attacks so my attack horse should be even more powerful
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Pemmican is pretty incredibly durable. Corn and rice also lust forever without refrigeration.
Ah yes, the insatiable lust of corn and rice, clearly two of the most erotic foods.

scriver

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Re: cRPG corner: Pathfinders Kingmaker and WoTR, Pillars of Eternity, etc.
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2021, 04:51:07 pm »

I'm currently running:

1. Human Paladin with the slayer-archetype, going Angel (of course), sneakily stabbing people in the back with a longsword for Iomadeae

2. Doggo Cavalier Halfling of the Order of the Paw, going Azata, bravely charging into the unknown on his trusty steed while laughing death in the face

3. Necromantic archetype Wizard, going Lich, of course

Still haven't completely settled down for one of them, but I've gone the longest with the Paladin. With my team of Seelah, Wolly, Lann, Ember and Sosiel/Camellia depending on mood I basically never get the chance to use my slayer study abilities because nothing lives longer than a round of attack.
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vjek

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Re: cRPG corner: Pathfinders Kingmaker and WoTR, Pillars of Eternity, etc.
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2021, 11:14:53 pm »

Ran into this ... encounter, today.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The group won, but.. yeah.  ::)  It took a few tries.

scriver

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Re: cRPG corner: Pathfinders Kingmaker and WoTR, Pillars of Eternity, etc.
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2021, 07:04:03 am »

That's the one you have to
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
, right?

I haven't gotten that far yet but I think I've seen people talk about it on their discord.
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vjek

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Re: cRPG corner: Pathfinders Kingmaker and WoTR, Pillars of Eternity, etc.
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2021, 10:34:37 am »

I handled it two ways. 
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The really silly part is this enemy is several times harder than the Balor you have to fight after/near it.  The Balor is a joke, by comparison.

scriver

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Re: cRPG corner: Pathfinders Kingmaker and WoTR, Pillars of Eternity, etc.
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2021, 11:27:52 am »

Lol, that's ridiculous. Looking forward to getting my butt kicked when I get there. Do you play on normal or some if the more difficult difficulties by the way?

I don't know if they changed her any from the beta, but when you take Drezen
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

But anyway. Back the positive energy killing thing. Any one her remember that one time in BG2?
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vjek

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Re: cRPG corner: Pathfinders Kingmaker and WoTR, Pillars of Eternity, etc.
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2021, 11:39:35 am »

I play on normal difficulty of enemies (not weakened), with normal # of enemies, 1.0 damage, normal/full crits.
Not the default; that's 0.8 w/ weakened enemies and smaller crits, iirc.

Cthulhu

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Re: cRPG corner: Pathfinders Kingmaker and WoTR, Pillars of Eternity, etc.
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2021, 12:53:38 pm »

Yeah that thing's insane but honestly the basic idea is pretty SOP for the game.  Give it giant stats in everything, buff it up, so the player has to do the same and spend five minutes after every rest buffing the party up to hell.  I think I'm done with it, all in on Solasta now.  The combat is just too much of a slog for me, I guess some people enjoy it but I've gotten to the point I dread big fights because they're more tedious than exciting.
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Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: cRPG corner: Pathfinders Kingmaker and WoTR, Pillars of Eternity, etc.
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2021, 01:13:20 pm »

any system that is reliant on pre-fight buffing to win just seems like... poor design.
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