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[Hans Lemurson]

For obvious reasons, I wish to completely deforest my map and convert it into charcoal.

I'd like some wisdom about how to go about hauling an entire forest's worth of logs into my fortress as efficiently as possible.

What are the best ways of hauling logs in bulk?
Do wheelbarrows increase the hauling speed of logs?
Will constructing constructing a minecart hauling route save me time, or is it a waste of effort?

[Naia]

Wheelbarrows won't make any difference and would likely just generate more hauling jobs, when dwarfs leave them somewhere outside the stockpiles.

Mine charts could be a possibility, but each log still needs to be picked up and loaded into the cart one at a time. The cart can transport several logs at once, so it kind of depends on your map and how many log you have, if it will be worth it to set up.


The area I would focus on, is reducing the travel time and effectiveness of your dwarfs.  A lot of time will be wasted on Urist running out to the map corner and pick up a log, then getting hungry and running back inside to get food. Then returning to get the log, but meanwhile gets thirsty...

So assuming your map is safe and that your dwarfs are mentally fit, I would pick a number of dwarfs and have those be the wood haulers. Turn off their others jobs ( and use some method to keep the rest of your dwarfs inside ) Set up a stockpile with a bit of food and drinks in the hauling area. Optionally a small roofed area with a few tables/chairs and beds.
When ready, use a burrow and assign the haulers/cutters to the area, then focus on getting everything cut down and moved into a single stockpile in that area.

An alternative to stockpiles, could be to make a few zlevels deep shafts and dump the logs into them. When done, seal up the holes whit floor so it's nice and safe, then you can access the dumping piles as needed by digging tunnels from underneath.


A few things to have in mind. Logs from one tree, that get stuck on branches from another, can hurt or kill a dwarf when falling.
If you have a lot of water, you could end up with hundreds of logs in the water, so you may want to make some type of flooring.
Having some fruit trees can be a good backup for food or making booze.

[Mobbstar]

All but the weakest of dwarves are faster carrying logs directly than fetch-fill-return-ing wheelbarrows.  Not to mention that wheelbarrows limit the amount of jobs possible per stockpile.

I haven't used minecarts a lot, but this sounds like a good application.  If you have master miners and engravers, carving a track system (edit: under the soil of course) should be very quick while the bulk of workers can begin hauling logs towards the minecart stations.  Don't forget to make a track stop to help with the unloading ("dump on arrival").

Else, and assuming the area around your fortress isn't always perfectly safe, consider placing an intermediate wood stockpile and set all other ones to "take from links only".  The shorter hauling distance means the dangerous areas are cleared faster.

[PatrikLundell]

You can't carve tracks on soil, so you have to build them (using logs...). I'm unsure mine cart routes are particularly useful for hauling of wide spread resources, though, although I guess you could build a track and change the track stops to target one area at a time (basically dividing the surface into 31*31 tile (maximum size) wood stockpiles with the route stops in the middle feeding the route stop. If I was to do it, I'd probably build a track stop there as well, to get a visual indication of where it is.
Obviously, you'd get smaller stockpiles along two of the embark edges, so if you want to divide things evenly you'd probably go for 24*24 (and live with the fact that even edged tiles don't have a single center tile).

However, I wouldn't bother, because new trees will keep popping up, unless you floor the surface over (which will use up a lot of the logs).

[Dunamisdeos]

I.... probably would just assign a bunch of haulers, myself.

BUT, minecart stations under the floor, set up at strategic intervals, is probably the most efficient way I can think of.

[Hans Lemurson]

Interesting, so logs aren't "heavy" enough to reduce hauling speed?  I find that surprising.  What is the weight limit at which hauled items start slowing dwarves?

My thinking about a Minecart setup is that since I'm already going to have a ton of wood lying around (I'm gonna have my woodcutters go wild on the forest), there would already be materials in place to construct Bridges to act as surface tracks.  I don't want to pierce the surface any more than I have to, so I'd like to stick to surface construction.

My goal is not so much about time elapsed, but rather labor efficiency.  My other dwarves will be busy with other things while the wood haulers do their work.

Any advice on how I should set up my minecart bridge-track network and its corresponding hauling routes?  I've never worked with Minecarts before for any purpose other than a QSP.

[Thisfox]

My two cents: Charcoal blocks can be more efficiently moved and stored than wood logs, minecarts or not. So if you're in a safe area to put workshops above ground, converting the logs to charcoal earlier in the transportation process might be key.

[Dunamisdeos]

Heck, if you just want to clear cut the stuff and make it go away, put a bunch of atom smashers about and get rid of the logs that way.

[Starver]

I think much of my answer has already been said, but...

I only tend to clearcut trees out of existence (initially) where I intend to dig my perimeter ditch/chasm (plus clear-gather any gatherable plant) and I use Burrows and mass-designate-treefelling (now with added prioritising!) in a logical way to get the ground prepared enough to then send in the channellers/rampers/derampers without causing further problems or wasting resources.

(The area(s) involved are fairly broad, I like ditches 10 or 20 tiles wide (for drawbridge-reach purposes, single or double retractable) and circumnavigating the map quite close to the edge, probably also straight across the two mid-way orthagonals in a big cross, save for the middle-middle patch which is retained as Trade Depot location waiting to be fed by bridges leading into it, viaducting down the middle of the cross... The (large) remaining 'quarters' within the ditch are walled in/rooved over as fortress sections, generally only the one(s) given agricultural purposes are fully cleared, but to facilitate the wall-building the clearcut footprint is a tile or three further than the ditch is planned for.)

Of course, I only have two, maybe even one, of my dwarves equipped as woodcutter and so dedicated to the task, with maybe a couple of herbalists doing their part and haulers from who is free/not-yet-employed from the remaining ones. (With priority to food-hauling, the logs can wait at the bottom of the ditch, as well as much of the stone also loosened along the way after going through the soil layers) and it is usually the case that handy migrants appear with enough of them not urgently needed for other tasks so that I can add them to the clean-up crew.

It is a big job, but my focus is upon the clearing (in order to allow the excavating) rather than log-hauling. As for stopping pesky new saplings springing up (in a painting-the-Forth-Bridge relentlessness) then does stockpile-setting still suppress new growth? If so, anywhere you aren't already putting a wood stockpile (as suggested above, surrounding trackstops or even the localised charcoaliser facilities) plonk down a Custom stockpile of Nothing, perhaps, to keep the deforestation from reforestating. (I don't find that a problem, as each miner gets working fairly quickly on the okayed-for-ditching ground, anyway.)

Though if you work in thin stripes (orthagonal, edge to edge, or diagonal, corner to corner), you can work out what works and what does not, probably, and modify your approach. If you have to start again, you should by then have gained experience (as will your woodcutters, charcoalers, etc) to do it quicker.

[anewaname]

Send so many dwarfs at a time, that wildlife instantly becomes terrified of being trampled by dwarfs.

One of my preferred methods is single 100-tile stockpile that feeds a QSP. When I want collection to stop, I set the 100-tile stockpile to 'only accept from links'.

[Hans Lemurson]

My two cents: Charcoal blocks can be more efficiently moved and stored than wood logs, minecarts or not. So if you're in a safe area to put workshops above ground, converting the logs to charcoal earlier in the transportation process might be key.

I thought about this, but I'd rather have the logs in my fortress where I can deal with them at my leisure, rather than having furnace-operators strolling through the wilderness.  Carrying the charcoal back in bins would of course be fairly quick.

To other respondents:
I'm doing this mainly as an exercise in above-ground tree farming, so I'm not interested in preventing sapling growth.  The thread is "Hauling away a Forest" not "Destroy a forest".  I also want to leave the surface as pristine as possible without any un-necessary holes trenches or channels. (My goal is to have all of the resources for my fortress come from the surface.  All wood, fuel, crops, food, water, and livestock must come from the surface and be actively defended, so that sieges will cut me off from my resources and must be dealt with.)

I want to get as much wood in my stockpiles as quickly and efficiently as possible.  I'm not really interested in solutions that involve mass dwarf-labor (I already know how to make an enormous stockpile and assign everybody to wood-hauling), but rather ones that conserve as much labor as possible. 

To that end, Minecart Tracks seem like a promising option, especially since they can remain in place for quickly harvesting any new trees that grow in the future.  Does anybody have any advice for track layout plans or wood hauling routes?

[feelotraveller]

Interesting, so logs aren't "heavy" enough to reduce hauling speed?  I find that surprising.  What is the weight limit at which hauled items start slowing dwarves?

Logs are most definitely heavy enough to reduce the hauling speed of weak dwarfs.  Although I can't provide specifics the weight limit is relative to dwarf strength.  Strong dwarfs will not be slowed by even the heaviest logs, and most dwarfs will not be majorly slowed by average weight logs.  But weak dwarfs can almost crawl with a normal weight log.

Personally I always use wheelbarrows for hauling logs although I reckon it is only a marginal gain in efficiency.  My fort layouts always have the wood stockpiles immediately adjacent the entrance (end of long corridor basically) so just about any dwarf using a wheelbarrow to collect wood walks past the stockpile where they are stored on the way to gather wood anyway, the rare exception being if they are already on the surface for some reason.  The biggest drawback is when as occasionally happens wheelbarrows get abandoned mid-task, by dwarfs being terrified or whatever, as this creates a new task to haul the wheelbarrow back to the stockpile.  Although I often find the biggest slowdown in this situation is the weak dwarf who insists on manually hauling a log to the stockpile before the wheelbarrow is returned (I only use one wheelbarrow since the priortity of wood-hauling is crazy high).

I have no comments on using minecarts as I've never tried that.

[anewaname]

How big is the embark?

[Hans Lemurson]

How big is the embark?

Just a standard 4x4

[gchristopher]

Build small minecart shotguns pointed in toward the center of the map, ideally with a small up-ramp so contents are launched on a parabolic arc, so dwarves can load the carts up with logs, then shoot the logs inward, where they will accumulate closer to the central fort.