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Total Members Voted: 15

[Maximum Spin]

Remind me again, have we taught him how to make cordage from tree bark yet?

I don't think so. I did explain braiding lianas, though. I've never actually done it with bark. More materials would probably be good.

[A_Curious_Cat]

Remind me again, have we taught him how to make cordage from tree bark yet?

I don't think so. I did explain braiding lianas, though. I've never actually done it with bark. More materials would probably be good.

I think you can use roots, too.  Also, I’m concerned that he might have to find trees other than pines in order to do it with bark… probably worth walking further down the mountain.

[King Zultan]

Remind me again, have we taught him how to make cordage from tree bark yet?

I don't think so. I did explain braiding lianas, though. I've never actually done it with bark. More materials would probably be good.

I think you can use roots, too.  Also, I’m concerned that he might have to find trees other than pines in order to do it with bark… probably worth walking further down the mountain.

What about using some of the local vines for materials, I've noticed that several types in my area are quite fibrous inside perhaps they could be used.

[A_Curious_Cat]

Remind me again, have we taught him how to make cordage from tree bark yet?

I don't think so. I did explain braiding lianas, though. I've never actually done it with bark. More materials would probably be good.

I think you can use roots, too.  Also, I’m concerned that he might have to find trees other than pines in order to do it with bark… probably worth walking further down the mountain.

What about using some of the local vines for materials, I've noticed that several types in my area are quite fibrous inside perhaps they could be used.

From what I understand, you can use anything that’s fibrous once you’ve got the technique down.  Apparently you can even do it in the dark, once you’ve got the hang of it!

[Stirk]

Pine cones are definitely a little bit edible, so I guess there's that. You can pick them in early summer when they're green and boil them. Yeah, I meant for you to make charcoal on your own and show off burning it.

Shovel, hm. It wouldn't be too durable, but if you can find some shale - a common rock with a clayey feel that breaks into layers very easily - you can often get dish-shaped pieces, and you can break bits off an edge to make it sharp and jagged. I've used shale rocks as makeshift shovels before. Downside is, like I said, it breaks easily. If you had any kind of cutting implement at all, you could make a wooden scoop too. Now, what you REALLY want is a large animal's shoulder-blade (scapula), which works really well. If you can get a hold of that, you'll be doing fine.

They don't look green right now so I guess I missed my window on pinecone season.

Should I try hunting a large animal? I think I'm done digging for now but I'll probably have a lot to do in the future since it seems like civilization building requires a lot of digging.

I pretty sure you can use anything that's mostly flat as a shovel.

If you can't use the rabbit skins you have you might be able to trade them to the cavemen for something.

I could probably use them if you guys had any idea what I should use them for. If I do end up trading, should I process them first? I bet something they can't make themselves would sell for more!

Oh, I forgot to add, you can pack the basket surface with mud and/or clay. It won't hold water, but it would hold sand.

That does seem to make moving sand and other such things faster. Lucky I can still build things by the creek to get water quick too!

Remind me again, have we taught him how to make cordage from tree bark yet?

Cordage is some kind of explosive right? Turns out your vocabulary gets much smaller without google.

If so then no. I've only really used bark in making fire from what I remember.

I don't think so. I did explain braiding lianas, though. I've never actually done it with bark. More materials would probably be good.

Lianas being a fancy word for vines? Yeah my rope traps are all vines! And the rope on my house is also a vine!

I think you can use roots, too.  Also, I’m concerned that he might have to find trees other than pines in order to do it with bark… probably worth walking further down the mountain.

So it is time to explore further down the mountain? I should be ready. Not really sure what I'm looking for though.

What about using some of the local vines for materials, I've noticed that several types in my area are quite fibrous inside perhaps they could be used.

I've used local vines for things! I think we said they where Virginia Creeper.

Anyway here are my current goals in rough order of importance:
>Get my phone charger ready
>Cook something in the oven that I just spent days working on
>Get the locals on my side to help with everything

So am I going to be looking for something to help with any of those three things or something to help with general survival?

[Maximum Spin]

You found something that looked like a copper mineral, right? If so, go try to smelt it using the clamp method. You can also use charcoal to get a hotter flame — it might work to smelt it on an open charcoal flame, actually, but I'm not sure — but wood should suffice as long as it's insulated with earth to keep the heat in. You will want more airflow than for making charcoal, though. One way of doing it would be to shape it so that there is a "chimney" on one side and a low air intake on the other; put the fuel close to the air intake and the rocks on the other side of the fuel. The hot air from the fire will head toward the chimney, heating up everything in its path. This works as a kiln and should work for smelting low-melting-point copper minerals too.
If you succeed, you should end up with a coppery-looking puddle that cools into a coppery-looking metal mass. You'll have to hammer it with something, like a rock, to shape it. In principle, you could make a clay mold, fire that, and then smelt the copper on top of it so that the metal flows into the mold, but I'm not really sure I can make recommendations about that; not all clay is equally good and I don't really know what to suggest.

You will also need magnets to produce electricity. I don't remember if you found any or not.

By the way, yes, liana means woody vines, and you should definitely try hunting something like a deer if you spot any.

Oh, and cordite is an explosive. Cordage means rope.

[A_Curious_Cat]

“Cordage” as in ropes and cords.  Stuff to tie things with.  The explosive you’re thinking about is called “cordite” (or, possibly, you might be referring to detcord, which is a cord-like explosive).

Anyways, we’ll start of with gathering and processing materials.  You can use just about anything that is fibrous.  I can’t tell you what will work, and what won’t.  You’ll just have to experiment for yourself.  One possible material is the inner bark of trees (such as cedar, birch, and willow).  One wait to harvest the inner bark is to find a fallen tree and remove the bark from it.  To do this, use a cutting tool to make a cut in the bark down the length of the tree.  Then, using a pointed stick (one with a flat “chisel” tip works best), lever the bark away from the tree, trying to keep is all in as large a piece as possible.  Along the way, you’ll run into knots in the wood that will make it harder to get the bark off (you’ll also learn why wood lice have their name.   To get around the knots, just place your stick between the bark and the tree near the knot and just lever the bark off the knot.

Once, you’ve get your piece of bark, lay it out in front of you, outer side down.  The inner side of the bark, may have different colors.  These may be white and wood-like, golden yellow, or dark and red.  The dark and red is where the inner bark has begun to rot.  Don’t use this.  It’ll make for weak cordage.  Just throw it out (not that there may be useful bark underneath the rot, so don’t throw the whole piece out. Just pull the rotted piece off like you normally would, but throw it in the trash).  The golden part is where the bark has “retted”.  This is where the proteins holding the bark together have broken down, but the bark has not yet begun to rot.  To pull a piece off, just pry it up starting from the edge (alternatively, you can cut a slit in the inner bark and use the cutting tool to pry it up and get it going).  You should try to get a piece that is as thin (a few millimeters thick, at most), wide (but probably not more than about 3 centimeters), and long as possible.  Pull as must of this off as you can find and roll it up (you can work on making cordage out of it during the rest of the year.  The native Americans used to spend the winter making cordage.  As I said before, once you learn how to do it, you can even do it in the dark).  Note that the pieces will dry over time, so if necessary, you can soak the in water for an hour or two.  In any case, once you’ve started to work on your cordage, you need to split the fibers.  To do this, just pull them apart with your hands.  Try and make the pieces the same thickness and keep the desired product in mind (larger pieces, or bundles of fibers makes larger ropes).

The first technique is call “two-ply reverse-wrap cordage”.  There are two techniques.  For the first technique, choose several pieces of material that are about the same thickness as each other.  Taking, one of the pieces, hold it between the thumb and forefinger of your off-hand a little bit off from the center (so that if you were to fold it in half, one end would be longer than the other.  This is important to avoid weak spots).  Taking your dominant hand, twist the material clockwise until it begins to kink in on itself forming a small loop.  Next, while keeping the material twisted with your dominant hand, take a hold of this loop with your off-hand, pinching where the material is twisted and hold the material so that the two ends are towards your dominant hand.  Next, using your dominant hand, grasp the part of the material that is farthest away from you about a centimeter or two away from where you are pinching with your off-hand using the thumb and forefinger of your dominant hand and give it a single full twist clockwise.  Next, while keeping the material twisted, rotate both parts of the material one twist counter-clockwise so that the part of the material that way towards you is now away from you and advance the pinch of your off-hand to pinch the newly twisted part.  Repeat the previous two step however many times it takes to make the cord.  Now, along the way, you’ll likely need to splice in more material.  To do this, when one of your plies starts running out, place another piece of material next to it, and just perform the two steps listed above as normal.  Try to avoid splicing in material on both sides at once, though.  This can create a weak point in your cordage.  Also, note that if you down secure the end of your cordage somehow, it’ll eventually unravel (I’ll leave you to figure this one out yourself).  The second technique is exactly the same as the first, but all of the directions of the twists are reversed.  Experiment and choose whichever one of the techniques works best for you.

Later, I’ll see if I can make some instructions for three-ply reverse-wrap cordage.

[A_Curious_Cat]

Here’s what a cedar tree looks like.

Spoiler: Atlas Cedar (click to show/hide)

Here’s what it’s needles and pine cones look like.

Spoiler: Atlas Cedar needles and cones (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Atlas Cedar trunk (click to show/hide)

Of course, cedars are native to Asia Minor and weren’t brought to the Americas until the Colombian exchange, so you might not find them where you are (it might also help if we knew what types of coniferous trees you have there.  Is there any information you can give us on them?)

[A_Curious_Cat]

Actually, I’d like to get an ID on the trees you have around you, first.  You might be able to use them for cordage and there might be other uses for them.

Do the trees have needle like leaves like this:



Or, are the leaves more scaly and hugging the twigs like this:



?

[Stirk]

You found something that looked like a copper mineral, right? If so, go try to smelt it using the clamp method. You can also use charcoal to get a hotter flame — it might work to smelt it on an open charcoal flame, actually, but I'm not sure — but wood should suffice as long as it's insulated with earth to keep the heat in. You will want more airflow than for making charcoal, though. One way of doing it would be to shape it so that there is a "chimney" on one side and a low air intake on the other; put the fuel close to the air intake and the rocks on the other side of the fuel. The hot air from the fire will head toward the chimney, heating up everything in its path. This works as a kiln and should work for smelting low-melting-point copper minerals too.
If you succeed, you should end up with a coppery-looking puddle that cools into a coppery-looking metal mass. You'll have to hammer it with something, like a rock, to shape it. In principle, you could make a clay mold, fire that, and then smelt the copper on top of it so that the metal flows into the mold, but I'm not really sure I can make recommendations about that; not all clay is equally good and I don't really know what to suggest.

You will also need magnets to produce electricity. I don't remember if you found any or not.

By the way, yes, liana means woody vines, and you should definitely try hunting something like a deer if you spot any.

Oh, and cordite is an explosive. Cordage means rope.

I can look back to where you explained it last time!

Bricks are a lot of effort. The best way to make bricks in your situation is probably going to be to make what's called a clamp, a kind of primitive kiln. You'd have to make as many brick forms as you can, then take bundles of wood laid on the ground and stack the bricks around and over them into a kind of large brick pile. Insulate the pile by packing dirt and mud around the outside and most of the top, leaving space for airflow and to ignite the wood... then, well, ignite the wood with a torch. You will probably get uneven results at first, but you'll get better at it over time - it's all in how you build it. I'm not sure I have any good starting tips I can functionally convey with words, though, so you'll have to get the practice.

You can also make charcoal in a clamp, using a similar principle but with wood and making the mud covering more airtight to limit burning, and smelt small quantities of tin or copper if you're lucky enough to find any. I'll circle back to copper in a bit.

I never did end up making bricks since we built an oven in a completely different way, but I did make charcoal.

I'll get my new hole ready! So what am I going to try and beat it into? Is this a strike-while-the-copper is hot thing or should I wait for it to cool down so I don't burn myself? I did only get a fistful of copper so I'm not sure what to with it or if I have enough.

I never did find magnets. Got distracted by the tribe.

Hunting dear just involves me hitting them with my fire hardened spear and hoping they die right?

“Cordage” as in ropes and cords.  Stuff to tie things with.  The explosive you’re thinking about is called “cordite” (or, possibly, you might be referring to detcord, which is a cord-like explosive).

Anyways, we’ll start of with gathering and processing materials.  You can use just about anything that is fibrous.  I can’t tell you what will work, and what won’t.  You’ll just have to experiment for yourself.  One possible material is the inner bark of trees (such as cedar, birch, and willow).  One wait to harvest the inner bark is to find a fallen tree and remove the bark from it.  To do this, use a cutting tool to make a cut in the bark down the length of the tree.  Then, using a pointed stick (one with a flat “chisel” tip works best), lever the bark away from the tree, trying to keep is all in as large a piece as possible.  Along the way, you’ll run into knots in the wood that will make it harder to get the bark off (you’ll also learn why wood lice have their name.   To get around the knots, just place your stick between the bark and the tree near the knot and just lever the bark off the knot.

Once, you’ve get your piece of bark, lay it out in front of you, outer side down.  The inner side of the bark, may have different colors.  These may be white and wood-like, golden yellow, or dark and red.  The dark and red is where the inner bark has begun to rot.  Don’t use this.  It’ll make for weak cordage.  Just throw it out (not that there may be useful bark underneath the rot, so don’t throw the whole piece out. Just pull the rotted piece off like you normally would, but throw it in the trash).  The golden part is where the bark has “retted”.  This is where the proteins holding the bark together have broken down, but the bark has not yet begun to rot.  To pull a piece off, just pry it up starting from the edge (alternatively, you can cut a slit in the inner bark and use the cutting tool to pry it up and get it going).  You should try to get a piece that is as thin (a few millimeters thick, at most), wide (but probably not more than about 3 centimeters), and long as possible.  Pull as must of this off as you can find and roll it up (you can work on making cordage out of it during the rest of the year.  The native Americans used to spend the winter making cordage.  As I said before, once you learn how to do it, you can even do it in the dark).  Note that the pieces will dry over time, so if necessary, you can soak the in water for an hour or two.  In any case, once you’ve started to work on your cordage, you need to split the fibers.  To do this, just pull them apart with your hands.  Try and make the pieces the same thickness and keep the desired product in mind (larger pieces, or bundles of fibers makes larger ropes).

The first technique is call “two-ply reverse-wrap cordage”.  There are two techniques.  For the first technique, choose several pieces of material that are about the same thickness as each other.  Taking, one of the pieces, hold it between the thumb and forefinger of your off-hand a little bit off from the center (so that if you were to fold it in half, one end would be longer than the other.  This is important to avoid weak spots).  Taking your dominant hand, twist the material clockwise until it begins to kink in on itself forming a small loop.  Next, while keeping the material twisted with your dominant hand, take a hold of this loop with your off-hand, pinching where the material is twisted and hold the material so that the two ends are towards your dominant hand.  Next, using your dominant hand, grasp the part of the material that is farthest away from you about a centimeter or two away from where you are pinching with your off-hand using the thumb and forefinger of your dominant hand and give it a single full twist clockwise.  Next, while keeping the material twisted, rotate both parts of the material one twist counter-clockwise so that the part of the material that way towards you is now away from you and advance the pinch of your off-hand to pinch the newly twisted part.  Repeat the previous two step however many times it takes to make the cord.  Now, along the way, you’ll likely need to splice in more material.  To do this, when one of your plies starts running out, place another piece of material next to it, and just perform the two steps listed above as normal.  Try to avoid splicing in material on both sides at once, though.  This can create a weak point in your cordage.  Also, note that if you down secure the end of your cordage somehow, it’ll eventually unravel (I’ll leave you to figure this one out yourself).  The second technique is exactly the same as the first, but all of the directions of the twists are reversed.  Experiment and choose whichever one of the techniques works best for you.

Later, I’ll see if I can make some instructions for three-ply reverse-wrap cordage.

So you can make ropes out of bark? It is a lot easier to find then vines! Though I guess I do have to find the trees that this works well with instead of just using the local pines.

Is this information I should save for later or do I have a pressing need for rope now? I could probably make a few more traps with it but otherwise I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to do with it.

Here’s what a cedar tree looks like.

Spoiler: Atlas Cedar (click to show/hide)

Here’s what it’s needles and pine cones look like.

Spoiler: Atlas Cedar needles and cones (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Atlas Cedar trunk (click to show/hide)

Of course, cedars are native to Asia Minor and weren’t brought to the Americas until the Colombian exchange, so you might not find them where you are (it might also help if we knew what types of coniferous trees you have there.  Is there any information you can give us on them?)

I can give you any information you want on trees! They're everywhere and it only takes me a moment to tell you anything you could possibly want to know about them.

The trees immediately around me have much longer needles and a more exploded-pineapple like look then the cedar. I don't think I've seen any with that beehive like cone but honestly all trees kinda look alike to me still.

Actually, I’d like to get an ID on the trees you have around you, first.  You might be able to use them for cordage and there might be other uses for them.

Do the trees have needle like leaves like this:



Or, are the leaves more scaly and hugging the twigs like this:



?

There...closer to the first one but they're more like...hair on a shaggy dog or porcupine. Really long. I can find some with shorter needles but the big ones are bigger than my finger.  Shorter ones are still thumb-length. Might be even longer/shorter ones in not-my-immediate vicinity.

[A_Curious_Cat]

Hmm… sounds like the first one then…

Next question:

Are the needles arranged in groups of 2-5, like this?



Or, are they arranged singly?

Or, are they arranged in clusters of many on short spur like branches, like this?



Or, are the needles of uneven length, flattened along the twig, like this?

[King Zultan]

When it comes to making cordage you should just keep doing it whenever you don't have anything else to do as you'll probably always be needing more of it.

[Stirk]

Hmm… sounds like the first one then…

Next question:

Are the needles arranged in groups of 2-5, like this?



Or, are they arranged singly?

Or, are they arranged in clusters of many on short spur like branches, like this?



Or, are the needles of uneven length, flattened along the twig, like this?

Shorter needles are in groups of 2, but don't look anything like the picture you showed. Long is in groups of 2 or 3.

When it comes to making cordage you should just keep doing it whenever you don't have anything else to do as you'll probably always be needing more of it.

For what?

[A_Curious_Cat]

Hmm… sounds like the first one then…

Next question:

Are the needles arranged in groups of 2-5, like this?



Or, are they arranged singly?

Or, are they arranged in clusters of many on short spur like branches, like this?



Or, are the needles of uneven length, flattened along the twig, like this?

Shorter needles are in groups of 2, but don't look anything like the picture you showed. Long is in groups of 2 or 3.

When it comes to making cordage you should just keep doing it whenever you don't have anything else to do as you'll probably always be needing more of it.

For what?

Well, you’ve definitely got pines (or a pine -I’m not sure if your describing a single tree or two separate trees-).  My list of sources of material for cordage doesn’t include any pines, unfortunately.  It does however include other conifers including several species of juniper, a handful of spruces, and baldcypress (the third picture in my previous post in case you are interested).  I’d say you should do some looking around.  You might ñ find what you need where you are, or you may need to look elsewhere (either up or down the mountain).

As for what you need cordage for.  A lot of things.  Tying things together. Hafting tools and weapon points (the main reason I first started suggesting cordage).  Etc.

As an alternative,  you can use sinew in most cases.  Unfortunately, that requires you to kill a large animal (something that is likely to be extremely dangerous for you).

I can see if I can find information about extracting sinew, if you want.

[Stirk]

Alright. Copper is in the kiln. Time to enter the copper age!

Well, you’ve definitely got pines (or a pine -I’m not sure if your describing a single tree or two separate trees-).  My list of sources of material for cordage doesn’t include any pines, unfortunately.  It does however include other conifers including several species of juniper, a handful of spruces, and baldcypress (the third picture in my previous post in case you are interested).  I’d say you should do some looking around.  You might ñ find what you need where you are, or you may need to look elsewhere (either up or down the mountain).

As for what you need cordage for.  A lot of things.  Tying things together. Hafting tools and weapon points (the main reason I first started suggesting cordage).  Etc.

As an alternative,  you can use sinew in most cases.  Unfortunately, that requires you to kill a large animal (something that is likely to be extremely dangerous for you).

I can see if I can find information about extracting sinew, if you want.

I've been describing two separate trees. Or well a bunch of separate trees. But yeah two different types of trees.

We can probably wait until I kill something big enough to need it then. Unless we can use small animals for small things or something. Or make like leather rope from their hides.