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[Fieari]

Does that mean there's going to be a different mountain map now, possibly more randomized in layout than simply river / chasm / magma?  Maybe different areas with different things?  Changed topographies?

[Toady One]

Yeah -- but that means it'll be worse for a bit.  It'll have to try to pick out start sites that don't look spindly or you won't end up with much of a game at all.  In the long run, it should be good though.

[Silveron]

If Im understanding Toady... the mountain range shape on the world map will affect the terrain available for a particular fort?

If thats the case a tweak to selecting a starting location could be very intersting/challenging. I can see this as being able to select any mountain world map tile for a fort. Huge, tiny, lone peak, etc.

[JT]

God, this is going to be so cool.

[Toady One]

I've been thinking about that -- and tiny can be very tiny.  Unless I change something, if you miss all your fractal coinflips (it would only take 16, which isn't inconceivable), the lone peak would be something like 48x48, which is...  small.  I can pre-seed the fractal to ensure you have some space, but if I do that too much, it will look blocky.  Anyway, ongoing adventure.  In the small ones, I guess you'd just get bored and abandon at some point.  I suppose this is when things like "retire fortress" can start to be considered.  You could even abandon, if you were playing it like a mine.  The dwarves export all the crafts and leave the mine behind, that sort of thing.

I don't want to spend a ton of time on it though -- this was just a setup for armies after all.  I do have to try to put enough in to avoid damaging the game though.

Edit: Additionally, a moving start site was also complicated by the fact that there are hidden, multilevel caves.  Allowing you to pick your own start site gives away their locations, because you couldn't choose those points.  Eventually, it would be nice if you could choose those points, but that would involve going 3D in dwarf mode, which we aren't ready for yet.

[ February 09, 2007: Message edited by: Toady One ]

[JT]

If the player had no knowledge of the site, would it break things in a horrible, horrible way if the site were simply wiped from the annals of history if a Dwarf Fortress were plopped on top?

[Toady One]

It would strand whatever critters live there, and the effects will only get worse.  Since I have to Z it up when I fix flows, I think the ultimate fix will be to just not tell you there's a dragon cave there and let you have a lil adventure.  Like Snow White with more fire.

[Mechanoid]

quote:Originally posted by Toady One:
Like Snow White with more fire.

More like Ash Grey.

Also, choosing a monsters' home as a starting position would warrant you bothering to actually take a few military dwarves with you for protection. Which i love the idea of (blind the cyclops with a speardwarf and get a one or two season plus pre-dug area, with easy access to ores and gems. No early searching!)

But in order for that to happen, the starting point values of weaponry and armor would have to be lowered...
Considerably.
   

[thvaz]

The possibilities are so amazing that I am thrilled.

However, if the player couldn't know what he could expect, it would be nice if rewalling was implemented together.

[Gakidou]

quote:Originally posted by Mechanoid:
<STRONG>

More like Ash Grey.

Also, choosing a monsters' home as a starting position would warrant you bothering to actually take a few military dwarves with you for protection. Which i love the idea of (blind the cyclops with a speardwarf and get a one or two season plus pre-dug area, with easy access to ores and gems. No early searching!)

But in order for that to happen, the starting point values of weaponry and armor would have to be lowered...
Considerably.
     </STRONG>

Remember, for 5 points per dwarf, you can get a free iron crossbow and ~40 bolts by making them ambushers. Combined with how sickening ranged damage is, why bother bringing a melee weapon at all? (Which is really just an example of how broken the current point-buy setup is, I guess.)

[JT]

"Features before balance, dawg."
"I hear dat."

[Shadowlord]

Personally, I'd love if you could build caravans, pack (some of) your stuff, and take your existing dwarves to a new site.

[Toady One]

Since I'm still buried in this and won't be releasing for a while, here's the picture for the day: Cliff.

The dwarves don't have their wagon because I haven't fixed that yet.

It is somewhat blocky because of the underlying block structure.  I can change that a bit, but it might always be there to some extent.  The cragginess comes from the fractal routine, but it's fine for now.  You can now walk around an entire mountain range like this in adventure mode without exiting an edge (although you'd starve or die of thirst first).

edit: smallish one

[ February 12, 2007: Message edited by: Toady One ]

[Gakidou]

Ooo, pretty! I wonder how we'll find underground rivers and magma flows, though. Dwarven Dowsing Rods?

By the way, could we get it so that beds and tables and the like are buildable outdoors? Now that there isn't as clear of a distinction between indoors and outdoors, it would be nice to be able to set up picnic areas and camp grounds, especially for fortresses that begin without any picks.

[Toady One]

Beds outside...  it's somewhat odd.

New One

I spent a bit more time to remove most of the blockiness.  There was a side effect of a 'hidden valley' on the lower left that I can get rid of with a bit more work, but it doesn't seem like a bad thing.

The starting dwarves are still hardcoded at their old position, which is why they can overlap with the stone.