Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Turgid Bolk]

Googled the sulfur fish, came up with this awesome article. Man, subterranean mushrooms have nothing on "snottites" and multicolored slimes. Not to mention sulfuric acid traps. What do you think Toady, can we get biomes and food webs based on sulfur compounds?

Dwarf cancels Harvest acid mold: fingers dissolving
Dwarf cancels Explore cave: melting

[Faces of Mu]

Great article Turgid Bolk. I'm wondering if TakiJap was referring to a lack of oxygen in magma that would be needed to breathe if the imps and such had respiratory organs? I know little about magma and lava (and from what the wiki indicates, there can be oxygenated molecules in magma - I don't know if there's a lot), but I suspect that lungs, gills or otherwise are not gonna yield the oxygen atoms needed for respiration. Hence removing the lungs would make them rely on anerobic processes and hence, as said above, they might rely a little on magical means.

Personally, if I were some demonic force that was going to create some sort of soul-swaying senient servants, I would probably make them able to exist anywhere so they could better work my devious plans.

It really just raises the last question of: In DF, can the magma inhabitants be killed or drowned in water if they have no lungs? (I'm pretty sure all but two or three creatures in the current version could be drowned or dowsed with a flood???)

[Toady One]

Nothing will be finalized until just before I get started today, pretty much, but the endgame timer should go.  It isn't really a "too deep" ending if you mine one tile and die.  The stuff has to suck you in.  You should get a bit, want more, take more, want more, take more, get too greedy and be wasted with prejudice for it to be in the proper spirit.  Having you be the one that gets greedy rather than the ruler seems more satisfying, though I can understand why the ruler would make the mining mandates and I haven't quite sorted out if I'm going to keep them in some form.

[irmo]

quote:Originally posted by Toady One:
<STRONG>Nothing will be finalized until just before I get started today, pretty much, but the endgame timer should go.  It isn't really a "too deep" ending if you mine one tile and die.  The stuff has to suck you in.  You should get a bit, want more, take more, want more, take more, get too greedy and be wasted with prejudice for it to be in the proper spirit.  Having you be the one that gets greedy rather than the ruler seems more satisfying, though I can understand why the ruler would make the mining mandates and I haven't quite sorted out if I'm going to keep them in some form.</STRONG>

So you strike adamantine, the king of the dwarves sets up court in your fortress, and soon the entire world hears the rumor of this wondrous mineral.  They're going to want to get their hands on it.

Merchants arrive to make offers.  They'll accept anything made of adamantine (or the raw material, if they're dwarves) and they're prepared to pay through the nose for it.  Name your price.  You want a hundred steel helms for one adamantine beer mug?  Fine.  If you sell anything made of adamantine, more caravans full of treasure will arrive, making increasingly lavish offers for increasing quantities...

If you don't sell, the caravans will keep coming for a while, the price climbing even faster.  Eventually the rest of the world will run out of patience and decide to take the adamantine by force.  Expect back-to-back sieges until you give in to their demands.  Sure would be nice to have some light, unbreakable armor...

At the same time, the stuff will affecting your own dwarves.  At least one strange mood every season, sometimes more, all demanding adamantine.  If you can meet these demands, you will of course get several of the most awesome artifacts ever.  If you don't, your artisans start dropping like flies.  Of course, to meet the demands, you'll have to do some mining...

Feeling sucked in yet?

[Dryn]

quote:Originally posted by thvaz:
<STRONG>I though the red of blood was due to the iron of the hemoglobines. Do you know the names of those fishes?Never heard of them, I would like to know more about.</STRONG>

I remember that there was something about them on "Planet Earth"

[Bryan Baywood]

I think at least stuff that lives naturally in extremely hot molten rock might be negatively affected by a rush of chilly water. There's a severe temperature difference there. Stepping into the air might be tolerable, since heat isn't conducted so quickly by air and the air around the magma is probably a bit toasty.

[Mechanoid]

quote:Originally posted by Turgid Bolk:
Dwarf cancels Harvest acid mold: fingers dissolving
Dwarf cancels Explore cave: melting

No, it'd probably be more along the lines of:

The limestone floor has shown cracks!
You hear a rumbling in the stone!
A section of cavern has collapsed! x2
Dwarf has fallen to their death! x3
A dwarf has drowned! x2
A dwarf has dissolved!
A war dog has dissolved! x2
The stone table is destroyed! x6
The chalk table has dissolved!
The wooden chair has dissolved! x8
...
Dwarf has thrown a tantrum! x69

[Tamren]

Heh imagine trying to retake a fortress flooded with acid.

Better yet, what if Toady added pockets of natural gas  , a big enough pocket could crack the mountain in half.

[Lightning4]

quote:Originally posted by Tamren:
<STRONG>Heh imagine trying to retake a fortress flooded with acid.

Better yet, what if Toady added pockets of natural gas   , a big enough pocket could crack the mountain in half.</STRONG>

That would be awesome.

I mean imagine, you're happily mining along, then comes a report "A miner has found a gas pocket" followed by "A spark has ignited the gas!"
Next thing you notice, your miner is plastered 50 tiles away against a wall, and everything else in the area gets showered by a wall of rocks.

But better yet, if the dwarves were somehow able to capture and transport the gas, they could make artificial gas pockets and have them ignited if a goblin sets foot in it, or it self-ignites when a goblin siege tries to mine their way in!

[Markham]

Considering the fortress is located within a cave, the resulting explosion would incinerate anyone not protected by a closed door in the routes leading from the source to the cave openings.

[Name Lips]

Don't forget oxygen deprivation. Even if a dwarf survives the fire, chances are he can't breathe. Especially if a cave-in has cut off access to fresh air.

I somewhat doubt Toady wants to program in airflow, though.  :p

[Shades]

quote:Originally posted by Name Lips:
<STRONG>I somewhat doubt Toady wants to program in airflow, though.   :p</STRONG>

Why when someone says this kind of thing do I half expect Toady to reply along the lines of 'oh that was in weeks ago'?....

hmmmm I _need_ new DF, I think I'm getting withdrawal, maybe I'll start another fort while I wait.

[SwiftSpear]

quote:Originally posted by Toady One:
<STRONG>Nothing will be finalized until just before I get started today, pretty much, but the endgame timer should go.  It isn't really a "too deep" ending if you mine one tile and die.  The stuff has to suck you in.  You should get a bit, want more, take more, want more, take more, get too greedy and be wasted with prejudice for it to be in the proper spirit.  Having you be the one that gets greedy rather than the ruler seems more satisfying, though I can understand why the ruler would make the mining mandates and I haven't quite sorted out if I'm going to keep them in some form.</STRONG>

As a gameplay matter, unless you intend on making the nobles significantly useful next version, leave out mandates.  In the current DF the nobels are just a massive hassle, which means primarily I drown them.  It makes me feel like a total asshole playing the game, but seriously, all they do is whine and wreak stuff.  I have nothing against a player drowning dwarfs he doesn't like, but I think it's counter productive to have the game punish a player for NOT doing so.

There should be pro's and cons for choosing to take actions such as genocide.  The pro's are pretty obvious, a dwarf that is causing a hassle abruptly stops doing so... what we really need is a sensible system of cons so the game reflects some semblance of real world ethics.

In DF the player effectively represents the mass consciousness of the fortress.   Ideally a game like this has the fortress slowly grow to reflect the character of the player over time, especially since our utopia's and dystopia's are the game world for RPG players coming back in and playing through in adventure mode later.

[Solara]

quote:Originally posted by irmo:
<STRONG>

So you strike adamantine, the king of the dwarves sets up court in your fortress, and soon the entire world hears the rumor of this wondrous mineral.  They're going to want to get their hands on it.

Merchants arrive to make offers.  They'll accept anything made of adamantine (or the raw material, if they're dwarves) and they're prepared to pay through the nose for it.  Name your price.  You want a hundred steel helms for one adamantine beer mug?  Fine.  If you sell anything made of adamantine, more caravans full of treasure will arrive, making increasingly lavish offers for increasing quantities...

If you don't sell, the caravans will keep coming for a while, the price climbing even faster.  Eventually the rest of the world will run out of patience and decide to take the adamantine by force.  Expect back-to-back sieges until you give in to their demands.  Sure would be nice to have some light, unbreakable armor...

At the same time, the stuff will affecting your own dwarves.  At least one strange mood every season, sometimes more, all demanding adamantine.  If you can meet these demands, you will of course get several of the most awesome artifacts ever.  If you don't, your artisans start dropping like flies.  Of course, to meet the demands, you'll have to do some mining...

Feeling sucked in yet?</STRONG>

Some great ideas here. I especially like the idea of strange moods, it's a much more subtle "damned if you do, damned if you don't" way to slowly wreck your fortress than sieges. As for caravans, once it becomes known that you have adamantine, maybe you'll start getting normal ones less often and instead special merchants with high quality goods that will accept nothing else...I imagine this could get even more interesting later, if the elf and human cultures each had their own unique 'super material', whatever it might be, that was only available in exchange for adamantine.

[ September 12, 2007: Message edited by: Solara ]

[thvaz]

I would like very much if the end game could be trigged by factors other than digging for adamantine. Adamantine can't be so rare if you can found it everywhere.