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[Silveron]

quote:Originally posted by Ravendas:
<STRONG>

Job? Sure. Profession? That's silly. Dwarves don't get skill in stone hauling, food hauling, refuse hauling, etc. They shouldn't get skill in water hauling.

Also I like the 'anybody can do it' jobs, because that means sometimes nobles can do it too. Like nobles picking crops and pulling levers, maybe they might haul water too.</STRONG>

Yes, I realize that "water hauling" is a peon job and 'anybody can do it'. I meant to suggest we be able to Devote or Ban individuals from performing it. Including it on the labor screen with Stone/Wood/Item/Food hauling would have been a better parallel to draw as an example. The professions popped into mind as those are the first things on the labor page. No legendary water haulers, just the ability to control who does the hauling.

[ September 07, 2007: Message edited by: Silveron ]

[Toady One]

The confusion might be my fault -- in the code "profession" is the term for what appears in the labor list, and I've probably used it in that fashion before.  Phrases like "carpenter" are "unit types" and skills are skills.  So using terms I might have dropped in the past, water hauling would be a profession without an associated skill or unit type, much like food hauling.  That's what I was considering, anyway.

[Merlon]

Sounds good.

Will typical haulingtasks gradually increase the labourers stats even if it's not tied to a skill? Could make longtime peasants more useful and encourage rotating them into skilled labour in due time.

[mickel]

One way of getting size in but not having multi-tile stuff would be something like what came up in another thread - size values.

Empty space has a value for how much space there is there, and objects have a value for how much space they take up.

The question of whether the elephant fits is then a question of space in the square minus the combined sizes of all the things already in the square. Cavern corridor? Maybe. Cavern corridor with a rock table? Not likely.

[Thingy Master]

If its been asked before forgive my noobishness, but is there any plans to have a family tree screen ever implemented? I know it would be very low on the to do list but it's something I would like to see.

[Gakidou]

quote:Originally posted by Thingy Master:
<STRONG>If its been asked before forgive my noobishness, but is there any plans to have a family tree screen ever implemented? I know it would be very low on the to do list but it's something I would like to see.</STRONG>

In the meantime, maybe an option to dump the relationship data to a text file, so that some third party could make an app that parses and displays them?

[Toady One]

When the Combat Arc goes in, attributes (the three stats) will have to be changed completely (well, not *have* to be, but they will be).  The ties between attributes and skills should be more specific, and yeah, doing things like hauling, while it may or may not be a skill like other skills, should definitely build physical attributes.  There are also finally some skills in the game that tie in purely to mental stats, but there are no mental stats, so that will change with the combat arc as well.  I don't recall the list from Armok 1 offhand, but something like that seems workable.

The size value stuff concerns me because of storage/cpu issues, especially as it impacts path finding.

Bloat 51 is the family tree interface.  Bloat 93 mentions also being able to see the friends and enemies of dwarves (holding grudges and antagonistic relationships with other dwarves is Bloat 95).  The tree interface is one of those things that always seems like it's going to get done soon, but I never actually get around to it.  It wouldn't take much longer than a relationship dump, so it's just a matter of setting aside time for it.

[Fishersalwaysdie]

So we will get Armokian stats?
Yay!!!

[Ruggan]

Here's a suggestion for stats...

Strength
Affects: Damage, Encumberance, Adjusted Hauling Speed
Trained by: Hauling, Sparring, etc.

Endurance
Affects: Health, Resistances, Stamina before tiring
Trained by: Becoming winded, overcoming wounds, living a healthy lifestyle (hunger/thirst/sleep)

Quickness
Affects: Movement Speed, Attack Speed, Task Speed
Trained by: Moving around, repetitive tasks, sparring

Coordination
Affects: Attack accuracy, Quality of Finished Goods/detailing, Long-range aim
Trained by: Sparring, detailing, making trade goods, decorating, target practice

Focus
Affects: Ability to act under stress/hunger/sleep deprivation, speed of learning skills, Quality of Finished Goods
Trained by: Working for extended periods of time, no idea

Willpower
Affects: Giving into pain, happiness/tantrums, etc.
Trained by: Suffering, being unhappy, learning

All of these would essentially be influenced by race/personality attributes.

[Cerej]

Huh.  I wonder, did you misremember the primary attributes of Asheron's Call?  Or did you come up with essentially the same attributes on your own?  I'm merely curious, and the question really means: Did you ever play Asheron's Call?

[irmo]

Whatever attributes we get, I respectfully ask that there not be six of them, just to avoid any hint of being infested with D&D mechanics.

I like the current attribute system, because they're neither useless nor redundant.  All of them bear on every task, and in distinct ways.  And since they're all equally trained by doing all kinds of work, they're distinct from skills.

An example (picking on Ruggan's proposal because it's right in front of me and has six attributes): What's the practical difference between Endurance, Focus, and Willpower?

[Toady One]

For reference:

Armok 1 split the attributes between physical and mental.  The physical attributes were strength, dexterity and endurance, and these were linked to the 'body'.  The mental attributes were rationality, focus, willpower, creativity, intuition, patience and memory, and these were linked to the 'soul', more than one of which could (theoretically) inhabit the body.  So if you moved a soul around, it would maintain its mental atts.  There were also related skills (linked to the soul) like coordination, balance, concentration, knowledge acquisition and situational awareness, and skills associated to familiarity with different body and body types and locomotion types.

I'm not sure what I'll end up going with but moving beyond the current 3 atts seems natural.

[BDR]

quote:Originally posted by mickel:
<STRONG>The question of whether the elephant fits is then a question of space in the square minus the combined sizes of all the things already in the square. Cavern corridor? Maybe. Cavern corridor with a rock table? Not likely.</STRONG>

One question: what happens if, say, a dragon, or a humongous demon, or someone's modded creation is bigger than what's considered the max size of the empty space in a totally empty square?  Does the creature 'steal' room from the surrounding squares if any are available, bringing the trickiness of multi-tile creatures back into play to an extent?  Or is this not possible at all, thereby somewhat limiting the game?

[Anticheese]

quote:Originally posted by Toady One:
<STRONG>For reference:

Armok 1 split the attributes between physical and mental.  The physical attributes were strength, dexterity and endurance, and these were linked to the 'body'.  The mental attributes were rationality, focus, willpower, creativity, intuition, patience and memory, and these were linked to the 'soul', more than one of which could (theoretically) inhabit the body.  So if you moved a soul around, it would maintain its mental atts.  There were also related skills (linked to the soul) like coordination, balance, concentration, knowledge acquisition and situational awareness, and skills associated to familiarity with different body and body types and locomotion types.

I'm not sure what I'll end up going with but moving beyond the current 3 atts seems natural.</STRONG>

So this means that things like "real" ghosts, possession and other stuff that be freaky is on the table?

I know I'm probably going to have to wait a few years to enact some dark ritual and implant my soul in the body of a child and then proceed to kill off its entire village one NPC at a time..

But all the same, cool.

[Pnx]

quote:Originally posted by Anticheese:
<STRONG>I know I'm probably going to have to wait a few years to enact some dark ritual and implant my soul in the body of a child and then proceed to kill off its entire village one NPC at a time..

But all the same, cool.</STRONG>

Heh but wouldn't the villagers notice if a child suddenly started throwing rocks around to get stronger?