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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 158157 times)

Markham

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2025 on: August 19, 2007, 10:22:00 am »

Eventually having the ability to use other materials for walls would be cool.  You could build a room with glass walls!  Though the dwarfs might get bad thoughts from being able to see those now-public executions...

Chaos

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2026 on: August 19, 2007, 10:54:00 am »

Or build an ice bastion above a glacial fortress. Or a wizards tower made of glass! That would be so cool.

[ August 19, 2007: Message edited by: Chaos ]

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TakiJap

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2027 on: August 19, 2007, 12:24:00 pm »

The mule video truly inspired me. I'm going to build pit prisons for POWs with trapdoor (bridge) floors. Every pit will have a lever on top of them to retract the bridge. I think I have to build a small maintenance corridor and doors to each prison to able to link the bridges. Food and such will be thrown down to the pits until I get bored having the prisoners there and will use the levers which drops the prisoners into an arena or a corridor which leads them to the arena in case I decide to build it higher.

There's so many possibilites that it's hurting my brain to think them all.

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Dwarmin

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2028 on: August 19, 2007, 01:31:00 pm »

Fromw what I saw it looks we can now dig pits and fill them up with dirt-maybe now can all those Humans can get a proper burial in the Earth, by covering a coffin with dirt? I feel really bad just stripping their boots and leaving them to rot on my stockpiles. Kind of.
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KrunkSplein

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2029 on: August 19, 2007, 01:42:00 pm »

I'm watching the Mule video repeatedly to comment on everything that's new.

for starters, rewalling!  Neat!  You have to go one square at a time, which is mildly inconvenient.  Nonetheless, rewalling = awesome.  You also appear to be able to directly build Fortifications in this way.

We also get to see the new method for selecting items during building - you can see a list of materials, along with their average distance and the number of that resource.  You also appear to be able to expand each type, presumably seeing the distance of each item - Diorite in this case - from the construction site.  Now we can finally make buildings out of specific stones!

Once you go up Z-levels, the ground becomes regular - all '.' instead of the normal random hodgepodge of symbols.  Surprisingly intuitive!  You also seem to be able to see how deep/high the mountain gets at any specific point - the world appears to list 195 downward layers, so I must be missing something, but it's still information!

Water sources, fishing zones, garbage dumps, ponds, sand collection and meeting areas are all dubbed "activity zones" and must be expressly declared.  I've never used Ponds, so I'm not sure whether or not this is new, but you can declare a pond and have them NOT fill it with water, but you can still assign any animal to it.  In theory, this allows us to make animal pens!  We just make a room, call it a pond, assign all the requisite animals there, and bam!  Instant animal pen.

There are a lot more options in the 'd' menu, not all of which make sense to me right away.  For starters, there are many options for ramps and stairways.  I'm not sure what the difference is in gameplay between ramps and stairs, but there are certainly tons of options for getting your dwarves up and down.  Also here is the menu to set Traffic areas, allowing you to set various levels of traffic flow in parts of your fortress.  As for 'd' menu items I dont understand, we have 'Reclaim Items/Buildings' and 'Forbid Items/Buildings.'

Finally, Paved and Dirt roads are separate items now!  That should make things easier.

Anyway, that's all I was able to notice.  Did I miss anything?

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ScatmanJohn

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2030 on: August 19, 2007, 01:57:00 pm »

I happened to notice some rock salt on the ground. One of the new minerals?
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Greiger

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2031 on: August 19, 2007, 02:03:00 pm »

One thing I may have noticed... Is it possible to just dig a straight hole in the ground? Without a staircase or ramp?  I haven't seen any indication of being able to do that in any of the vids so far.

Just curious, you still rock if ya can't do that yet.

...(Goes to donate again)

:D

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Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2032 on: August 19, 2007, 02:11:00 pm »

I guess I can try the gradated skies out.  It would involve some extra depth calculations, but that shouldn't be so bad.  There's also the issue of subterranean "skies".  Right now it just uses '#' instead of the sky character.  There are fewer options here, because if it's fading to gray or something, it can be confused with a wall.

Handling chained animals falling is Bloat255.  Right now I think they just break free, or worse.

Yeah, you can dive and ascend in water in any of the 26 directions using shift/ctrl + direction.

There is no steam pressure.  It's nontrivial to model that, though it could be done, especially if the steam never occupies a lot of map squares (in which case it can use the flow objects rather than a square-by-square property).

When I was talking about flying over something to drop something on it, I was talking about adventure mode.  If you chasm an object over a creature, it should turn into a projectile over that creature.  You don't have as much control over which items are dumped in which places though.

Siege engines don't really think about 3D now.  All the 3D projectile stuff is on to-do, and I probably won't get to it this time around.  On the other hand, armies are the next thing up after this, and that should include better sieges and so on.

Beasts kept in pits won't starve to death because nothing needs to eat except your dwarves.  Changing this is difficult, because each class of creature (wilderness animals, invaders, pets, etc.) has different problems that come up if you force them to eat/drink.

You can rewall with anything you can currently use to make a bridge.  So you can do use glass blocks if you want.  Or you can place a window.

For the building menu, it's not the average distance, but the distance to the one it would select if you press the button -- that distance is updated each time you press it for multi-item buildings, so you can switch materials if you always want the closest.

The elevation number on the bottom is absolute elevation (100 is sea level, 150 is where mountains start).  I wasn't looking during the movie, but if it gets up to 195, that would explain why that map has such steep cliffs (because the wilderness border is <150).  The number on the top is levels above/below ground relative to current view.  I used to use striped bars, but that was before there were wilderness altitude levels (that is, there was just a +/-15 levels, but the world was level).

Yeah, changing the name of pond to pit/pond is on to-do.  It's sort of an animal pen, but always involves dumping.  They won't bring an animal in to a walled off area and just drop it off at the same z level, so the dream of the corral/pen is still off in the future.

If you have reclaimed a fortress, you'll have become familiar with reclaim item/buildings -- it starts all of your old equipment/buildings as forbidden, then you say which ones you want to use.  Unclaimed stuff is invisible to your dwarves.  Now this has been extended to first-time forts -- you can forbid any item to make it invisible to your dwarves, and reclaim it at a later time.

Yeah, rock salt is a new mineral, though you can't do any saltish things with it yet.

You can dig a hole in the ground using the "channel" designation.  With channels, you select a floor, and a dwarf, from above and to the side, will remove the floor and the wall below, without getting stuck in the hole (in general, though sometimes they stupidly manage to do it for the moment).

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Mechanoid

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2033 on: August 19, 2007, 02:18:00 pm »

:D


...

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Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2034 on: August 19, 2007, 02:29:00 pm »

Yeah, somebody brought that up on IRC think.  It's on to-do, along with 14 other swimming related issues I may or may not get to.  I'm just trying to get the skeleton in for now.  There are actually about 10 more pages of observations of minor things that could be done, but I'm not going to do most of them before I release it.  Just another load of reqs/bloats for the dev pages.
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Mechanoid

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2035 on: August 19, 2007, 05:16:00 pm »

Hell, i'd be happy with the next release even if nothing drowned... The fluid physics are that damn awsome.
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Jothki

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2036 on: August 19, 2007, 07:19:00 pm »

Is it any more difficult to dig ramps than it is to dig channels? What would happen if you made a 'channel' completely out of ramps, would it function in exactly the same way except that dwarves could move through it?
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Zengief

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2037 on: August 19, 2007, 07:40:00 pm »

As far as I know, there are no channels as such in the next version.  In other words, you will need to make them out of ramps.
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Hamel

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2038 on: August 19, 2007, 09:14:00 pm »

Just a thought, but I'd like to see creatures, items and walls the same from only 1 level up. so at level 0 we have a dwarf, a floor square, a wall and a mule leather cap.
At level 1 we would see the dwarf, the wall and the mule leather cap the same as on level 0, but not the floor square. We would see the floor square as we do now in the videos at 1 level up.

Just something I'd really like to see in the next update.

[ August 19, 2007: Message edited by: Hamel ]

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Markham

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2039 on: August 19, 2007, 09:57:00 pm »

To add to the last bit, on the level above that (or maybe instead of, since the dwarfs on different levels but equally visible might get confusing), it would be neat to see little colored dots moving where the dwarfs and animals would be, instead of just little dots where the distant ground is.
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