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[axus]

My sarcasometer is broken, but I don't think diagonal movement will kill the game.  We'll need something like that when the game moves to full 3D mode.  The pathing considerations could give a value of 2 to orthoganal moves and 3 to diagonal, thats pretty easy... no need to go to floating point.  How expensive should climbing and descending a ramp be compared to regular moves?  How about holes and ladders?

[Mechanoid]

quote:Originally posted by Core Xii:
Oh no, not diagonal movement... This completely just ruined the game.

Hyperbole...
It hasn't killed the game. Only changed it.

Would allowing the ballista to point in a designated direction "kill" the strategy behind placement? No. It would change how the ballista is placed or acted on, but it still functions as it always has.

Moving diagonally is the same as moving in any other direction. As long as it takes an equal amount of time to go from one point in a equilateral triangle to another, it doesn't really matter which way you go; so long as you take the same amount of time for the same amount of distance.

[ July 20, 2007: Message edited by: Mechanoid ]

[Xgamer4]

You guys may want to get your sarcasm detector fixed.

[Faces of Mu]

I say hurray for diagonals! I feel the space more keenly in adventure mode than I do in Dwarf mode (of course, not controlling a dwarf is probably the biggest influence). A large spanse of grass in adv mode is bigger to me than in dwarf mode, even if they are the exact same tile size.

[Fishersalwaysdie]

Diagonal bashes Dwarf Fortress in the lower body with it's complexity!
It explodes in gore!
Dwarf Fortress has been struck down.

[ July 20, 2007: Message edited by: Fishersalwaysdie ]

[ July 20, 2007: Message edited by: Fishersalwaysdie ]

[karnot]

quote:fixed problem with doors/windows vs. projectiles/flows/vision  

So, do windows work in favor of those inside now, as opposed to outside before ?
In the last version goblins had MUCH better chance to shoot someone behind your fortifications than your own military.

[Gaulgath]

quote:...added diagonal movement rate adjustment...

Well, that problem is solved. Fantastic! Glad to see that our dwarves can move diagonally now.

[puke]

so you say now.  think what it does to all those wierd ultra-compact room layouts!

edit: i just thought that i would share what a complete and brainless failure i have become.  its this kind of shit that really brings out the luddite in me, thinking that maybe we shouldnt rely so much on technology since it tends to make us stupid.  or maybe it just makes me stupid.  or maybe i was always stupid to start with, and technology unfairly gives stupid people the ability to compete and function in normal society, where in a perfect world they would starve and die.  anyway, on with the anicdote.

I wondered what exactly the distance modifier should be, traveling on the diagnal.  but i couldnt remember any of my trig.  nor could i remember the distance equation from planar geometry.  so what did i do?  try to derive either one from what little scraps of math that i do remember?  no.  dont be silly.  look up the formula on the internet, like any moron could have?  no.  dont be silly.

I opened up Visio and mocked up a quick 2x2 grid, and then drew a diagnal line on it.  Then I asked the program how long the line was.

I think that my only redeeming quality right now, is that i am able to see the shame in this action.

[ July 21, 2007: Message edited by: puke ]

[Markavian]

I don't want to see dwarves moving diagonally through corner tiles. I have no problem with dwarves moving diagonal across open tiles, but not through corners... I still see those square blocks as square - passing through a diagonal means you're clipping the corners of the two adjacent squares. If both adjacent squares are blocked, it shouldn't be possible to move diagonal.

code:

Impassable:   Passable:
.###          .###
#.##          ..##
##.#          #..#
###.          ##..

[Markavian]

quote:Originally posted by Darkchampion:
<STRONG>Also, since all ores wont be everywhere, will it be possible to prospect for ore in a given location? After all large mining companies don't just blindly start throwing down mines. They go through a lengthy and expensive process when prospecting.</STRONG>

Judging by what Toady says about finding ore... I suggest you look at the surrounding rock types. Ores are usually found with certain types of rock. That's kinda why there is limestone lining the cave river and obsidian lining the magma flow. Just be watchful for the type of material you are digging through.

[puke]

quote:Originally posted by Markavian:
<STRONG>I don't want to see dwarves moving diagonally through corner tiles.[/CODE]</STRONG>

[joking]clearly, nethack should be the guide here.  they can only squeeze through if they're unencumbered.[/joking]

what about when theyre smoothed to pillars?  or when moving diagonally between statues?  should the pathing change based on what is being moved past?  clearly it has to give one way or the other, and im fine with it being less restrivtive instead of more restrictive.

[Grek]

quote:Originally posted by puke:
<STRONG>
I wondered what exactly the distance modifier should be, traveling on the diagnal.  but i couldnt remember any of my trig.  nor could i remember the distance equation from planar geometry.  so what did i do?  try to derive either one from what little scraps of math that i do remember?  no.  dont be silly.  look up the formula on the internet, like any moron could have?  no.  dont be silly.</STRONG>

If we assume that the tiles are square, the movement speed of a diagnal should be about 7 tiles of diagnal for every 10 cardnal.

[Toady One]

Pathfinding isn't really a CPU eater, unless it fails, which is what the connectivity map is for, and maintaining the connectivity map is expensive.  I'd say maintaining the connectivity map is the main outstanding issue that isn't caused by clunky implementations I already know about.  As an example of the latter, the bridge freeze is caused by a routine which checks for newly visible portions of the map very slowly.  I haven't rewritten that yet, but it might not matter at all any more anyway.  As stated earlier, the slowdown for fluids comes from the connectivity recheck -- this slowdown doesn't happen now, but there are similar issues when flows go over ramps or stairs, since it does more calculations to update the connectivity map.  The ramp/stair slowdown hasn't been as noticeable since some recent changes, but there are probably some map configurations that irritate it.  There isn't a noticeable slowdown when flows move around through hallways and so on now.

A dwarf stores their path after they've calculated it.  If they hit an obstacle, they try to form and insert a new subpath to a point several steps down their current path, but they don't run the calculation more than 20 or so steps.  This does lead to problems with moving obstacles sometimes when a dwarf is just slightly faster than a dwarf moving in the same direction, since they'll try to fix up their path but just end up being blocked again.  It's not CPU intensive, but it looks silly.  In general, they only bother to fully recalculate their path (or just cancel their job) when the next step of their path fails and they can't repair the path as above, though if they are on a job there are also other connectivity-based calculations it'll do checks on occasion that can scrap a path or their job assignment.  There are a few buggy AI routines that'll try to calculate impossible paths repeatedly, but those are the ones that don't check the connectivity map and I haven't fixed or found them all yet.

[ July 21, 2007: Message edited by: Toady One ]

[irmo]

Veering off in a random direction for a moment.  What happens when an object falls from a higher Z-level onto another object?  Do they both end up in the square at the bottom, or do they eventually stack up vertically?

If they end up in the same square, certain abusive tricks are possible.  For example, it's possible to dispose of any amount of waste stone (or refuse, or anything else) by digging a 1x1x1 pit and throwing it in.  You could carve up the entire mountain and cram it into that space, and everyone would go "hey, where did the mountain go?"  Well, you just turned it into neutronium.

But if they stack vertically, are the sizes of the objects considered at all?  I don't want to get back into the "so how big is a square, really?" discussion, but a stack of ten floodgates[0] ought to be taller than a stack of ten sweet pod seeds.  I'm curious as to how this will work.

• Speaking of which, are floodgates even around any more?  Since the concept of a "channel" has been abolished, aren't they just remotely operated doors?  Or is there some special floodgate mojo, such as being able to dig out a space and install the floodgate in one step without the water filling the space first?

[Jothki]

What exactly are the new injury-based travel restrictions? Will those have a strong effect in Adventurer mode?