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[Abalieno]

quote:Originally posted by Toady One:
<STRONG>I have no release date.</STRONG>

I wasn't asking an actual release date, just a comment from you guessing how much work you still have to do after watching the to-do list.

Just your own idea about how long it may take. I'm not going to rant if you miss the release date  

[qwertyuiopas]

Will the next version be out in the next week?
Please?
a guess?
Within the next month?
estimates?
.........................................

[nornagon]

I'm not really sure I understand what you mean by topology lines... like contour maps, maybe? Could someone draw a mockup?

[Mechanoid]

quote:Originally posted by qwertyuiopas:
Within the next month?

I'd be surprised if it wasn't released this month, at the rate things are going...
If 1 or 2 things are done a day, the game could very easilly be released by the 30th (or the 1st of next month)

[Jothki]

quote:Originally posted by Geekwad:
<STRONG>

I've always presumed that the Adventure/Fortress split was a temporary affectation until the game was developed enough to make it seamless.  I've since realized I'm probably wrong, but a lot of these difficult design questions just go away when you assume that the split is temporary.

I had expected that some day, I'd be able to take the followers I'd collected in Adventure Mode and go off and start a settlement.  The PC would continue to exist in this new "Fortress Mode", and orders would have to be relayed through a command chain; initially your PC would automatically walk around barking commands, later you'd have a bunch of pages and tubes (like on an old ship) to relay them.

The pain of PC death, which would otherwise mean the death of the Fortress as far as the player was concerned, could be reduced by allowing the player to take over the next highest-ranking character.

In addition to creating fortresses, these well-integrated PCs would also have the ability to found independant caravans for trading.  In "Fortress Mode", whether the PC controls the caravan or whether an NPC does would simply depend on whether the PC chooses to lead it or stay home.

The same would apply to leading armies, which could lead to very difficult choices for the player -- always a good thing.  Do you lead the offense or the defense?  Or do you just take all the gems, your best followers, and flee like the tinpot dictator we all secretly love to be?

[ July 11, 2007: Message edited by: Geekwad ]</STRONG>

What would be even neater would be near-total transparency between the two modes, with the ability to instantly convert any non-noble into an adventurer, or have an adventurer perform any task that can be done in fortress mode, including building and mining.

[irmo]

quote:Originally posted by Toady One:
<STRONG>There's nothing on to-do about controlling the current version migrants.  There are issues with the new migrant groups dropping by which is too disruptive right now.  This doesn't impact current version migrants.  There was a suggestion thread or two floating around about how to handle immigration but I'm not acting on that until the new migrants groups have completely replaced the old migrants, which isn't going to happen this version.</STRONG>

If I understand this, the eventual plan is for the new migrant groups to completely replace the old "wave of immigrants out of nowhere every spring" system.  They'll migrate in, hang around for a while, and if they like it, settle down.

This makes it easy to refuse immigrants: when they show up, lock the doors.  Conversely, it might take some work to accept immigrants--maybe they'll only stay if there are free beds, or rooms of a certain quality, or some amount of food in storage.  Possibly even different migrant groups with different standards--a group of orphans would be fine sleeping in a barracks, while skilled artisans will insist on some level of room quality or total wealth.

This could even be how nobles arrive.  A representative from House Ber comes to tour your fortress.  Upon seeing that you're doing a bunch of farming, he asks for a bedroom and office.  If you get it set up in time, he moves in.  Otherwise, he leaves and comes back later.  (This would allow nobles to be refused, which in turn means nobles need to be useful somehow.  Alternatively, he could move in unconditionally, and then demand rooms.)

[Fourth Triad]

I like the new human towns they look cool.

[I3erent]

I dont know if you really intended to make a living breathing world when you guys first started this little project, I think you mentioned initially that the object was to make a fort and have an adventurer go in later to get all the treasure high score etc.

One thing I have always wanted in a game is a real living breathing world. Elder scrolls never really did it the world really was "dead".  With the complexity of the world you have created and the replayability of the game I think you may be on the track of what we have always wanted.

How has your vision for the game changed?
Is a living fantasy world your goal?

I would love to see the ecology of the world get worked over. With food chains, animals eating animals, births,more diverse animal kingdom etc. all in relation to the environment you have created. Your attention to detail is amazing in the way you are creating the geology, weather and setting for our little world and I hope you guys never lose enthusiasm for the project.

[Trukkle]

quote:
I would love to see the ecology of the world get worked over. With food chains, animals eating animals, births,more diverse animal kingdom etc.

Once a lot more important stuff has been done and once NPC hamlets/villages/towns/cities becoming self sustaining, or at least able to fail gracefully instead of just sitting around starving, has been tackled.
I'd love to see an attempt at wildlife ecology and predator/prey interaction, so a cougar won't attack or be attacked by Dwarves if she's got plenty of harmless deer to munch on and is being passive, but might get a bit more edgy if she has cubs, is hungry or sees the Dwarves carting off the last of her beloved deer meat. Of course, all the effort in balancing them could still be disrupted by elephants or a bizarre RNG choice of critters in an area. loving elephants.

Still, I think that's all just 'flavour', the way things are shaping up now, exploring Human and Elven towns will be worth the wait, just to set all those ancient Elven treehomes alight  

(it's spelled with a ph)

[ July 12, 2007: Message edited by: Trukkle ]

[a1s]

quote:Originally posted by Rictus:
<STRONG>

Originally posted by Wood Gnome:
perhaps once the apropriate noble arrives you would receive a report in spring informing you what immigrants are petitioning to move into your fortress and you could either accept or refuse them individually.

"sorry, don't need any more jewelers, but i'll take that farmer and the three forgeworkers, thanks..." [\QUOTE]

Hmm...too open to abuse I reckon.  If there is a method for refusing immigrants then it should be an all or nothing option, with declining immigrants if there are constant refusals.</STRONG>

how about this: have the immigrants come with some friendships developed. you don't know about them, so each time you refuse o accept someones friend or spouse or child they don't come. so by refusing that farmer you could end up with less forge workers then you needed. it's a risk.

[ July 12, 2007: Message edited by: a1s ]

[Aquillion]

quote:Originally posted by Rictus:
<STRONG>Hmm...too open to abuse I reckon.  If there is a method for refusing immigrants then it should be an all or nothing option, with declining immigrants if there are constant refusals.</STRONG>

Why?  I dont' think immigrants are supposed to be one of the major challenges of the completed game...  they just stood in for a challenge early on when the real gameplay stuff like armies and so forth wasn't in yet.  Once that's in, there's no reason why immigrants or nobles have to be major problems.  (In fact, they shouldn't be, later on.  Constantly having to take breaks from dealing with armies and diplomacy in order to make another hundred beds or make quarters for twelve new nobles would be more annoying than fun.)

[Rictus]

Perhaps not.  Micromanagement of the ghettos that spring up in many fortresses can be very tiresome, but I'm thinking more from a gameplay kind of angle, to be honest.  Picking and choosing immigrants based on their skill sets without there being any kind of detriment goes against the grain.

On the other hand, if you're worried about micromanagement, surely sifting through 30+ immigrants and kicking out the crap ones is boring enough?  

Although this could all be a moot point, if you have armies and patrols on the go you're more than likely be after fresh bodies to soak up the casualties anyway.

[Misterstone]

Hey, here's an idea:  instead of having only immigrants, what if dwarves EMMigrated when things start going badly at the fortress?  I.E., if its fall, and food stores are low, the dwarves decide to get the hell out of there and save their family from starvation during winter?  That would help players avoid the problem with overly large populations...

In the works?

[Aquillion]

quote:Originally posted by Rictus:
<STRONG>Perhaps not.  Micromanagement of the ghettos that spring up in many fortresses can be very tiresome, but I'm thinking more from a gameplay kind of angle, to be honest.  Picking and choosing immigrants based on their skill sets without there being any kind of detriment goes against the grain.

On the other hand, if you're worried about micromanagement, surely sifting through 30+ immigrants and kicking out the crap ones is boring enough?  

Although this could all be a moot point, if you have armies and patrols on the go you're more than likely be after fresh bodies to soak up the casualties anyway.</STRONG>

And, seriously, once you're in the late game the meager starting skills most dwarves come with aren't going to matter much in any case.

(Although it might be nice to be able to pay highly-skilled dwarves to come to your fortress...  I remember in Colonization you could either take convicted criminals cheap, or pay large amounts to entice skilled professionals like schoolteachers over.  That could be helpful if, say, your one good blacksmith dies, and would add another important use for wealth.)

quote:Hey, here's an idea: instead of having only immigrants, what if dwarves EMMigrated when things start going badly at the fortress? I.E., if its fall, and food stores are low, the dwarves decide to get the hell out of there and save their family from starvation during winter? That would help players avoid the problem with overly large populations...

That could be annoying.  So...  they take all the stuff they're carrying?  Like, my one pick, if it happens early on?  And would legendary dwarves sometimes emmigrate, too?  Taking any artifacts they made with them?

A bit harsh to have that happen in response to a single bad season of crops.

[qwertyuiopas]

When they leave, it would probably be those who didnt leave any masterpieces, and thay shouldnt take stuff that they dont own away with them. But thats all up to Toady, when he does it.